Are they a wolf in sheeps clothes?

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#61
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#61
biker said:
I am ordained, yes. And joining this site was contingent because of this Covid-19. I rather enjoy seeing everyone's views, even those who purposely attack others for their beliefs. It has opened my eyes to many things. One being, how many use God as a platform to tear other Believers down. The other being, more insight to the specifics of Doctrines I have only been aware of and not familiar with. It definitely is an eye opener. Makes me wonder if we cannot get along on a silly internet platform, how do we think we are getting along in Heaven. Which furthers that thought that some here most likely believe they "are the only one's" who are going to Heaven. And that saddens me because they have fooled themselves by their own Doctrine which "does not" match the Doctrine Jesus Preached!
Click to expand...
Most will not endure sound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#62
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#62
biker said:
I am ordained, yes. And joining this site was contingent because of this Covid-19. I rather enjoy seeing everyone's views, even those who purposely attack others for their beliefs. It has opened my eyes to many things. One being, how many use God as a platform to tear other Believers down. The other being, more insight to the specifics of Doctrines I have only been aware of and not familiar with. It definitely is an eye opener. Makes me wonder if we cannot get along on a silly internet platform, how do we think we are getting along in Heaven. Which furthers that thought that some here most likely believe they "are the only one's" who are going to Heaven. And that saddens me because they have fooled themselves by their own Doctrine which "does not" match the Doctrine Jesus Preached!
Click to expand...
Will any endure sound doctrine?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
B

biker

Banned
#63
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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83
#63
notuptome said:
Most will not endure sound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...

And that is most likely why most do not attend a church body/gathering. When you believe you are smarter than your Pastor, WHOM God personally chose for those who attend and sit under him, it's difficult removing that plank out of one's eyes while focusing on the tiny splinter in someone else's eye.
 
B

biker

Banned
#64
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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#64
God has given us all Pastors. A person WHOM God chose for each one of us. But when we begin looking past what God has set up specifically for each one of us, we end up like wolves tearing down the innocent lambs. If we think God does not pay attention to even a simple website like this, where it is a free for all to rip on any ORDAINED man of God (wolf/false prophet/or GOOD SHEPHARD), any Believer for not believing like we think they should, We are fooling ourselves.

God puts people in position of leadership. God picked the kings of Israel. And we read, even when these kings were against God, God still blessed them. Yes, they normally ended up bad as you read their story. But it does not matter because God chose that person. It's the same with Preachers. God had a purpose for each one. It's up to that individual to keep God's Word "True." If he does not, it doesn't remove from the fact that God still chose that person in the first place.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#65
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#65
Roughsoul1991 said:
Hillsong, Bethal, and Elevation worship. All have in common a huge follower base drawn in by music.

This will be a debate forum. Share your thoughts with facts, evidence, and opinions.

Premise:
These bands are linked to the new age, millionale, prosperity, word faith, charismatic
theology. Their music is very shallow in theology but the churches behind it are as many claim theologically inaccurate.

Here are a few questions to consider.

  1. How theologically accurate are the songs?
  2. How theologically accurate are the churches that sponsor these bands?
  3. Are these bands a serious threat to unite over or are they within ones conscious judgment?
  4. Are they a possible stepping stone to mature theology? (Many people have started for example with Joel Osteen but graduated to local churches.)
  5. Are they leading people to Hell or Heaven?
  6. Lead pastor's of these churches are Brian Houston, Bill Johnson, Steven Furtick.
Conclusion:
Will you defend or debate against the topic of are these groups a wolf in sheep's clothing?
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Are you suggesting those who are Charismatic, who believe in the gospel of prosperity, good health, and words of faith, are somehow wolves in sheep's clothing?
Are you serious?!
I don't know about the music or the musicians, but I do know about the soundness of the doctrines.
And for you to state, those who believe in the above doctrines, are somehow "new age", is ludicrous, to say the least.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#66
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#66
biker said:
And that is most likely why most do not attend a church body/gathering. When you believe you are smarter than your Pastor, WHOM God personally chose for those who attend and sit under him, it's difficult removing that plank out of one's eyes while focusing on the tiny splinter in someone else's eye.
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It doesn't have anything to do with smarts
It has to do with being led by the Spirit of God verses those who are not, and the pastor could be one of the wolves incognito.
I had a pastor thank me because I taught him something in scripture, he was having a problem with.
They don't know everything and you shouldn't lift them up so high and put those who are not pastors, down so low beneath them.
 
B

biker

Banned
#67
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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#67
know1 said:
It doesn't have anything to do with smarts
It has to do with being led by the Spirit of God verses those who are not, and the pastor could be one of the wolves incognito.
I had a pastor thank me because I taught him something in scripture, he was having a problem with.
They don't know everything and you shouldn't lift them up so high and put those who are not pastors, down so low beneath them.
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The reason I tend to uplift a Pastor is because he is being judged greater than everyone else is. He is responsible for those souls who sit under him. I give them a break because if you are caught in a bar, people just shake it off. If a Pastor is caught in a bar, all hell is about to break loose. There is a "Double Standard" between a Pastor and a member of a church body. It would be wise if you learn this and never forget it.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#68
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#68
know1 said:
Are you suggesting those who are Charismatic, who believe in the gospel of prosperity, good health, and words of faith, are somehow wolves in sheep's clothing?
Are you serious?!
I don't know about the music or the musicians, but I do know about the soundness of the doctrines.
And for you to state, those who believe in the above doctrines, are somehow "new age", is ludicrous, to say the least.
Click to expand...
Prosperity gospel, or word faith is false and who teach it are false teachers either by ignorance or intentional.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#69
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#69
know1 said:
Are you suggesting those who are Charismatic, who believe in the gospel of prosperity, good health, and words of faith, are somehow wolves in sheep's clothing?
Are you serious?!
I don't know about the music or the musicians, but I do know about the soundness of the doctrines.
And for you to state, those who believe in the above doctrines, are somehow "new age", is ludicrous, to say the least.
Click to expand...
You have to defend your claim. Ludicrous isn't a defense.
 
B

biker

Banned
#70
Apr 5, 2020
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#70
If all that we do we do by Faith in God, how is preaching Faith wrong? If I preach what God instructs us to have, Faith, how can that be wrong?
 
B

biker

Banned
#71
Apr 5, 2020
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#71
Didn't Christ say, if your Faith is just but the size of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, move, and it shall be moved?
 
B

biker

Banned
#72
Apr 5, 2020
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#72
Several times in the 4 Gospels we see Jesus say, your Faith is great, I have never seen such Faith, oh you of little Faith. Seems like God wants us to be reminded of Faith!!
 
B

biker

Banned
#73
Apr 5, 2020
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#73
The woman with the issue of blood who said to herself, if I can only touch the hem of His garment I will be healed. This is Faith in action. And Jesus made a point to make a big deal of it.
 
B

biker

Banned
#74
Apr 5, 2020
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#74
Jesus was upset at Martha and Mary because they lost Faith concerning Lazarus.
 
B

biker

Banned
#75
Apr 5, 2020
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#75
The Old Testament was Faith that one day the Messiah would be here. It's all about Faith!
 
B

biker

Banned
#76
Apr 5, 2020
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#76
God told Abraham his seed would be greater than the sands of the Earth, it was only him and Sarah. But he had Faith and look now how many people have been born since that moment.
 
B

biker

Banned
#77
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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#77
If more Preachers would preach Faith, how to live in it, how to abide in it, Believers would not be as WEAK as they are now!

That is just a fact, Brother!
 
B

biker

Banned
#78
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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83
#78
Have you ever physically seen Jesus before? So how do you know He is real? By FAITH!
 
B

biker

Banned
#79
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#79
Just take a look at these threads, Brother. The Holy Spirit has "NOT" inspired much of this garbage to be taught within the Church Body. Why not? It does not matter if Saturday is Sabbath or not, it does not matter what Denomination you are, it does not matter that your church has a luncheon and other churches have pizza on Friday nights. The majority of these threads are a waste of time especially to the Holy Spirit.

Let me ask you this, Why would the Holy Spirit inspire someone to make a thread that is going to rip on the same people the Holy Spirit lives inside? He isn't. A thread made to tear down is out of self, not of God.

And from Genesis to Revelations we know staples:
Must Believe to be saved (Faith)
Must obey God's guidelines (takes Faith to believe in God to Believe His guidelines)
Must humble ourselves(to what an invisible God = taking Faith to humble yourself before God)
must believe in God's Holy Word (we have a physical Bible but it takes believing in the invisible God to think the Bible is true = Faith)
^
notice a pattern yet?

It is ALL about FAITH!
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#80
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#80
biker said:
Just take a look at these threads, Brother. The Holy Spirit has "NOT" inspired much of this garbage to be taught within the Church Body. Why not? It does not matter if Saturday is Sabbath or not, it does not matter what Denomination you are, it does not matter that your church has a luncheon and other churches have pizza on Friday nights. The majority of these threads are a waste of time especially to the Holy Spirit.

Let me ask you this, Why would the Holy Spirit inspire someone to make a thread that is going to rip on the same people the Holy Spirit lives inside? He isn't. A thread made to tear down is out of self, not of God.

And from Genesis to Revelations we know staples:
Must Believe to be saved (Faith)
Must obey God's guidelines (takes Faith to believe in God to Believe His guidelines)
Must humble ourselves(to what an invisible God = taking Faith to humble yourself before God)
must believe in God's Holy Word (we have a physical Bible but it takes believing in the invisible God to think the Bible is true = Faith)
^
notice a pattern yet?

It is ALL about FAITH!
Click to expand...
We are not against faith at all. I'm against unbiblical teaching about what faith is. Just because you speak it doesn't declare it into existence. Prosperity was never promised either. It is putting God as a waiter or Genie. People have spiritual gifts. Not everyone has the gift of healing or tongues etc. You can pray for healing but just because you believe it doesn't mean it is the will of God. To assume the will of God is dangerous.
 
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