There are non-believers who demonstrate love , patience and kindness...? Is it necessary to be a Christian to be kind and do God's will?

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Jan 17, 2020
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#41
I think that you and Scarlet are both probably misjudging who a christian is. There are many, many, people who are trusting in their faith and works to save them eternally, who are of the elect of God.
Human faith is not biblical faith. It is a sinful work of the flesh they trust in. True faith trusts in Christ, not free will. And that is why so many of the self-righteous hard to be around.
 
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TheIndianGirl

Guest
#42
Yes I agree and if they surrender to God. I have a feeling a lot of people do this in their final moments, when they made peace with God and are ready to "go home."
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#43
The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?

there is nothing wrong with it Scarlett. nothing at all

I have also experienced what you are talking about. sadly though, there is only one way for a person to be saved according to scripture

perhaps it is a commentary on the fact many Christians seem to forget that Christ has saved them and nothing they have done or will do makes them righteous or better than others in the eyes of God

it is also true that the devil attacks Christians through circumstances and other people and will come against Christians who are doing their very best to follow Christ. we need the Holy Spirit to strengthen us, especially today, because this world is on a downward spiral and things might just get even tougher

we are to keep our eyes on our Savior because He is not the one that lets us down. people let us down...we even let ourselves down but that does not change the truth one bit. temptations are everywhere and that includes the temptation to just walk away from God when really, it is people we are disappointed in.

I understand that and have walked away myself...years ago...I was terribly disappointed in people but God upheld me and I understand that He will not let me down, but, you have to nurture your relationship with Him. Jesus gave all for the human race but not all will come to Him but we do see still God's nature in people and even those who are not saved

but again, only accepting Christ means we are saved.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#44
Human faith is not biblical faith. It is a sinful work of the flesh they trust in. True faith trusts in Christ, not free will. And that is why so many of the self-righteous hard to be around.
Just curious, Do you believe those who preach a false doctrine are saved eternally?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#45
According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, in fact, he thinks it is foolishness. Repenting of breaking a spiritual law only comes after a person has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Eph 2, and is able to understand spiritual laws.
 
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TheIndianGirl

Guest
#46
What do people think about the "worst of the worst" being saved? I'm talking about sick psycho murderers and child rapists, or that Morman polygamist in Utah who slept with dozens of underage girls, causing lifelong scars. A lot of these people know they are doing something wrong, except a few insane ones, and do have a conscience of some sort but are continuing with evil acts because they can get away with it. I think in their final moments because they are so desparate and fearful that they will cry out to God, and God/Jesus will respond in some form, and that this person will repent and surrender to God.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#47
Chiming in, responding to the title of the OP.

Yes unbelievers can be considerate, thoughtful, merciful and kind. I believe God can use said traits to bring them to Him, to bring others to Him. I think it a blessing, but still believe they need, MUST, to come to Christ.

With that said...

If we follow Him, how can we not exhibit love. He is Love, and I do not speak of merely the emotional ooey gooey stuff, though He provides a steady supply of that too, for Him and others. We see in His example and His word what love looks like.

It is filled with mercy, service, care, humility, selflessness, investment, endurance, patience, kindness, hospitality, truth, and sacrifice. We are called to pay Him forward, in what we say, think, and do. Yes, He even says that we can be identified as His by loving others. Sometimes love doesn't always come with sweetness, sometimes we face resistance and admonishment, but even then it should be served on a plate of grace, dignity and consideration. Otherwise, the receiving of it can be lost in the translation.

Lord, great almighty, ruler of all...please, help us all love as we are called. We are so thankful that Your grace abounds so that ours can. We are hopeful to grow in love as we grow in You.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#48
there is nothing wrong with it Scarlett. nothing at all

I have also experienced what you are talking about. sadly though, there is only one way for a person to be saved according to scripture

perhaps it is a commentary on the fact many Christians seem to forget that Christ has saved them and nothing they have done or will do makes them righteous or better than others in the eyes of God

it is also true that the devil attacks Christians through circumstances and other people and will come against Christians who are doing their very best to follow Christ. we need the Holy Spirit to strengthen us, especially today, because this world is on a downward spiral and things might just get even tougher

we are to keep our eyes on our Savior because He is not the one that lets us down. people let us down...we even let ourselves down but that does not change the truth one bit. temptations are everywhere and that includes the temptation to just walk away from God when really, it is people we are disappointed in.

I understand that and have walked away myself...years ago...I was terribly disappointed in people but God upheld me and I understand that He will not let me down, but, you have to nurture your relationship with Him. Jesus gave all for the human race but not all will come to Him but we do see still God's nature in people and even those who are not saved

but again, only accepting Christ means we are saved.
I believe that there are still some Jews today that have been born again, but are not accepting that Jesus was their Savior, and are still waiting for his appearance. I, also, believe the scriptures to teach this fact. Those few Jews are believing in and worshiping God, which is evidence that they have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, unlike the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,324
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#49
What do people think about the "worst of the worst" being saved? I'm talking about sick psycho murderers and child rapists, or that Morman polygamist in Utah who slept with dozens of underage girls, causing lifelong scars. A lot of these people know they are doing something wrong, except a few insane ones, and do have a conscience of some sort but are continuing with evil acts because they can get away with it. I think in their final moments because they are so desparate and fearful that they will cry out to God, and God/Jesus will respond in some form, and that this person will repent and surrender to God.
According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness. Only the born again person, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who can discern the things of the Spirit, will repent of breaking a spiritual law. Repenting is not the cause of eternal salvation, but a product of already having been saved eternally.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#50
According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, in fact, he thinks it is foolishness. Repenting of breaking a spiritual law only comes after a person has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Eph 2, and is able to understand spiritual laws.
Yep, have a faith >invite Jesus> jesus in you will help you repent/ produce loving work.

We can't repent or bear the fruit of ourselves must abide in Him than He bear the fruit through us
 
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TheIndianGirl

Guest
#51
According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness. Only the born again person, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who can discern the things of the Spirit, will repent of breaking a spiritual law. Repenting is not the cause of eternal salvation, but a product of already having been saved eternally.
I think a lot of people have deathbed conversions. My friend's father told me that as a person gets closer to death (which he is, his organs are gradually failing), he will focus more and more on God, even if he is living with a lot of family the family gets phased out and will become more like background activity; it's like a transition phase.
 

ProJesus

New member
Mar 27, 2019
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#52
The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#53
The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?
It’s not necessary to be Christian to be loving and kind to people, but it is necessary to place your faith in Jesus Christ in order to have salvation.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#54
Just curious, Do you believe those who preach a false doctrine are saved eternally?
Possibly because of their lack of exposure to the truth. But with the studied hardcore, it's doubtful.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#55
some great examples here of why few should consider themselves a teacher as James states

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:1

yet isn't that exactly why some come here? to teach?

there is salvation only under ONE name and the length of time a person has been saved does not indicate they are more saved, but that more may be required of them

be flexible. no one has it all right. some will receive more because they understand that no one knows everything

others will assume because they might believe they have their hands on the gold doorknob of knowledge, while really, others are pushing past them and taking a seat at Jesus feet to learn from Him...something about meek and lowly in heart
 
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TheIndianGirl

Guest
#56
Possibly because of their lack of exposure to the truth. But with the studied hardcore, it's doubtful.
I think the studied hardcore know God very well but are being rebellious. Very likely they will have a deathbed conversion.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#57
"Fruit of the Spirit" Not "Fruits." ... When we do that, we are then interpreting the noun "fruit" in the phrase, "the fruit of the Spirit" as a plural but it isn't. The Greek word, karpos, is in the singular. Meaning, fruit, one fruit, not many fruits, or different kinds of fruit.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#58
In a sense of man laws, though I’m not completely convinced on the crime punishment being at different levels of misery, though I could be mistaken haven’t studied if that theory has any weight in scripture

In human law someone who kills a 100 people will probably serve more time than 1 murder.
Or like is a 100 good deeds deemed better than one good deed in man’s eyes, sometimes it is among people. like the PK ripper or something like that the man who snowed a lot of people with kindness and good deeds, he was a park ranger volunteer scout leader went to church all sorts of good things but a cold hard killer underneath.
We translate the Hebrew word torah to law, but that Hebrew word is not the same as our understanding of the English word law. In Hebrew the word guidance would fit, except our understanding of guidance doesn't exactly fit, either. when we sin there are negative results.

The Lord loves us and wants to protect us from the negative results of our sin.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
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#59
The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non-Christians, what is wrong in that..?
that is called self-justification. Just because of one who is not a Christian i.e. born-again, saved can display love and patience, That means they do not need forgiveness? yes, they do all have sinned all must come by the Cross. Our righteousness will not be excepted by a Holy God who would be insulted for one to come to HIM when HE said My Son is the only way.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#60
Just curious, Do you believe those who preach a false doctrine are saved eternally?
Well you may have to explain your question a bit more for a more precise answer lest confusion occurs and arguments arise. If your speaking of the gospel of Jesus then no they probably are not or at the very least simply don't understand which believe it or not is more common than you might think. But the problem with the word doctrine is that is a vague word.
Not because of the definition of the word but more like how people use it. Even withing the body doctrine is a huge war because one person believes a certain doctrine while another says it is false, but if you say preaching a false gospel people generally understand what your talking about