Not By Works

[GandalfTheWhite]

(Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect)

Needs to be understood in context of the offerings/sacrifices which was was stated earlier:

(Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing)

(Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience)

(Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation)

Christians now have access to the holiest through Christ - this is what the shadows pertained to.

While that old temple stood, there was no access to the holiest and this pertains to what John in his revelation said:

(Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled)

The above pertains to the seven plagues delivered upon Israel during the war of 66-70AD - Christ was the exception to John's "no man was able to enter".

My friend I like your name, are you originally from South Africa?

The law/Torah is a shadow of Christ to come if we can't see it then we are reading it wrong.

God is leaving us this thread of gold through the whole Bible and it is pointing to our Saviour every time. The Torah is shouting out Jesus, and we should search for Him in it.

Our Bible school motto is Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

We see ourselves as kings because we look for Christ in everything the Bible teach us, even the Torah.

God bless

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

But, this has to be considered in context:

(John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.)

The Law of Christ is not the Law of Moses.

I did explain why I said the law of Christ... my apology.

I think sometimes we are so in the moment and we forget we are speaking to people that have no reference to myself or what I am busy with. Because I see Christ in the Torah I say law of Christ.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

perhaps the sign of Lot's wife, who was carried away by the hand of angels in salvation from the coming destruction & changed to become salt, will be a sign to Israel when the Bride is snatched away. perhaps in the time of Jacob's trouble he will return and believe, when that which restrains is no longer restraining.

could it be this - ?

‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, ​

“Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” ’ ​

(Zechariah 8:23)​

What an interesting verse. It is happening right in front of our eyes my brother

 

[azamzimtoti]

My friend I like your name, are you originally from South Africa?

The law/Torah is a shadow of Christ to come if we can't see it then we are reading it wrong.

God is leaving us this thread of gold through the whole Bible and it is pointing to our Saviour every time. The Torah is shouting out Jesus, and we should search for Him in it.

Our Bible school motto is Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

We see ourselves as kings because we look for Christ in everything the Bible teach us, even the Torah.

God bless

I don't think you will see many on the forum not taking into account the old testament Gandalf:

"The law/Torah is a shadow of Christ to come if we can't see it then we are reading it wrong."

The new testament writings use and explain the prophecies.

(John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.)

Nobody will disagree with the above, but the application has to be correctly rendered otherwise our understanding is impaired.

(John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.)

The Jews knew the Torah and all the scriptures that were written, yet their application was in error.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I don't think you will see many on the forum not taking into account the old testament Gandalf:

"The law/Torah is a shadow of Christ to come if we can't see it then we are reading it wrong."

The new testament writings use and explain the prophecies.

(John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.)

Nobody will disagree with the above, but the application has to be correctly rendered otherwise our understanding is impaired.

(John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.)

The Jews knew the Torah and all the scriptures that were written, yet their application was in error.

The Jews are/were not in error because they are applying Torah wrong, they added to the Torah the Talmud and that is why Jesus said to them you are adding burdens that not even you can carry. The burden is Talmud not the law or Torah.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

The Tabernacle in the law is a shadow of God thrown room, and also the plan since the first second God created heaven and earth that Jesus would die on the cross.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

The Law is the shadow of Christ to come. It is in Bereshit (first word in the Bible), it is in the genealogies, in the Tabernacle, the brazen altar, and so we can go on and on and on. It is everywhere…

God bless

 

[14meatcc]

regardless of what everyone else is doing, you must be able to discern the truth in the gospel.
The spirit of truth will confirm that in you so you can worship God properly. I am amazed at the amount of individuals that believe they have come to the knowledge of the truth, but they error in their discernment. This tells me that the truth is not meant to be revealed at this time to them, or they do not possess the spirit of truth. The spirit of truth is also the comforter because the truth is a comfort that frees you of your sin and fear of death in the absolute without wavering. It let's you freely love God because you know your salvation is solid, because he first loved you and gave his only son a ransom because your sinful self cant achieve the righteousness to enter into heaven. It's the complete faith of the truth that compels obedience out of love, not to obtain or gain. To know the truth is knowing that Christ is the author and finisher of your faith, and that you are kept by the power of God and that is all you will ever need. Knowing the truth is realizing every fact of the truth points to the love of God for the saved individual. Knowing the truth comes through revelation of the spirit of God, not a mental realization due to intense study fueled with a level of self righteousness thinking you broke some code or figured out a mystery and something is deserved because of your efforts and diligence. Have you been drawn, or have you forgotten you are merely interested for your own selfish reasons and fear? Much zeal In this thread is fueled by ego and self righteousness through a sense of achievement and or accomplishment.
Anyone who lacks the wisdom to realize that it's God's party, he's made out the invitation list, and if you are on that list there is nothing that will keep you from making it to the party, that God will sustain his will and make sure you will arrive at your appointed time. Know the truth and the truth will make you free. There is one truth, that truth is the key to the narrow gate which leads to salvation.
Many on this thread can word their opinions with intelligence and vast vocabularies, but in the end the truth carries much more power in it's simplicity.
To all the osas believers, hold fast to your beliefs, for they are of the truth. Do not let others deceive you with persistence and enticing words. Do not let them take your loving approach by argument. For the truth possesses saving faith in itself, and that power is magnified when presented in love.
To all who error in your understanding of the truth Iin the word of God...you are in my prayers, and I truly mean that.
God bless everyone.

 

[walknlight]

"Tools" cannot and are unable to maintain themselves.
Every "tool" has an operator that uses the tool to do the work....
The Operator does the work when that tool is used.
The tool can do nothing in and of itself
Those who are His are "tools" to fulfill His will.....Moved by God ,His Spirit.

Have no clue what god these others are referring to...
I know (experientially) My God is able.....and there is no condemnation for those in Him...

God Bless

 

[Lightskin]

Well, what about you? You saw me plainly post about gaining victory "...in Christ's power", but you STILL leveled an accusation of works salvation. How can it be "works salvation" if Christ is the One granting us - we who are completely helpless to resist sin - power to do right?

Besides, the "Omnipresence" thing is a totally legit criticism. OSAS claims a man can remain safely in the palm of God's hand while disconnecting himself from the Vine to head over to the next vineyard and attach himself to Satan's Holly wood tree.

Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. That said, OSAS believers espouse exactly what Paul has, that children of God should not deliberately sin but rather strive to walk in a manner that is pleasing and glorifying to God by allowing the fruit of the Spirit to take hold and shine.

 

[Judges1318]

Your decision....no,no,

He called me,
I believed Him,
He chose me.

 

[Judges1318]

you are kept by the power of God and that is all you will ever need.

"through faith"
Don't leave that part out.
You need to know that part too.

Knowing the truth comes through revelation of the spirit of God, not a mental realization due to intense study fueled with a level of self righteousness thinking you broke some code or figured out a mystery and something is deserved because of your efforts and diligence.
...
Much zeal In this thread is fueled by ego and self righteousness through a sense of achievement and or accomplishment.

In the Bible, believing God through His gracious gift of 'knowing' (a.k.a. faith) is never labeled a self righteous work that earns you salvation.

Have you been drawn...

Everybody who is saved has been drawn.

...or have you forgotten you are merely interested for your own selfish reasons and fear?

'that it may go well with you'

Are you familiar with this phrase from the Bible?

Anyone who lacks the wisdom to realize that it's God's party, he's made out the invitation list, and if you are on that list there is nothing that will keep you from making it to the party, that God will sustain his will and make sure you will arrive at your appointed time.

Which is why we should continue to believe and not lose out on such a great and sure salvation.

 

[Judges1318]

Nope. It says they are kept by the power of God through faith.
Being shielded and kept are two different things.,

Understand?

I understand there are differences in word use in our various translations.
The point is, it is through one's faith that you have God's protection for the Day of Salvation when Jesus returns.
Stop having that faith and you no longer have God's protection for the Day of Salvation.

 

[Judges1318]

I never said that. You’re the one saying it.

Then what's your beef with me?
I say you have to continue to believe in Christ to remain saved.
You say that's me trying to work for my salvation.
I said I want the scripture that says that.

 

[Judges1318]

So how do you do all those?

Keep trusting in Christ.

 

[Lightskin]

Then what's your beef with me?
I say you have to continue to believe in Christ to remain saved.
You say that's me trying to work for my salvation.
I said I want the scripture that says that.

I’ve already stated my case on numerous occasions; you simply refuse to acknowledge my biblically based views because you disagree with them.

You needing to remain a believer in order to be saved gives no regards to Jesus who does the actual saving.

 

[Judges1318]

I’ve already stated my case on numerous occasions; you simply refuse to acknowledge my biblically based views because you disagree with them.

No.
I disagree with your view because it is not Biblically based.

You needing to remain a believer in order to be saved gives no regards to Jesus who does the actual saving.

That is not a Biblically based belief.
Look here:

"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2

Now, according to the above verse, if I do not hold fast the word am I still saved?

 

[Lightskin]

No.
I disagree with your view because it is not Biblically based.


That is not a Biblically based belief.
Look here:

"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2

Now, according to the above verse, if I do not hold fast the word am I still saved?

God is faithful even when we are not. 😊
Oh yeah, that’s Scripture. 😎

 

[Judges1318]

God is faithful even when we are not. 😊
Oh yeah, that’s Scripture. 😎

But he will deny you if you deny him.
Big difference between being faithless (like when you cheat on your taxes out of fear) and denying him outright in unbelief.

I at least give you and 11th hour credit for not denying that you are new osas adherents.
(Old osas says you were never really saved to begin with if you don't hold fast the word to the end).

 

[walknlight]

..... being faithless (like when you cheat on your taxes out of fear) and denying him outright in unbelief.

What or where (area in your life) do you lack?

 

[Judges1318]

What or where (area in your life) do you lack?

Why do you ask?

 

[Lightskin]

But he will deny you if you deny him.
Big difference between being faithless (like when you cheat on your taxes out of fear) and denying him outright in unbelief.

I at least give you and 11th hour credit for not denying that you are new osas adherents.
(Old osas says you were never really saved to begin with if you don't hold fast the word to the end).

God is faithful even when we are not.
No buts. That’s straight forward Gospel.
Why don’t you ever celebrate God’s grace rather than always focusing on the negative. Who is your true master?