Does baptismal regeneration violate the core teaching of justification by faith alone (sola fide)?

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Is baptismal regeneration a biblical doctrine?

  • Yes, salvation begins at water baptism.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, salvation begins at the moment of faith.

    Votes: 18 100.0%

  • Total voters
    18
Apr 5, 2020
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From how the Scriptures are laid out, Baptism is just a public sign to others what took place in private to the one who received Salvation. It's not necessary to be Baptized, but to unbelievers, someone getting baptized is a sign to them you are a Believer. True Believers already know you are saved because they can sense the Holy Spirit within you.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Of course it matters, as people are basing doctrine and their theology on the Holy Spirit baptizing. So I assume by your response, that you can't find Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Can you find any scriptural evidence of Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
John in John 1:33 that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus received water baptism to fulfil Jewish tradition. Jesus did not water baptize any converts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Of course it matters, as people are basing doctrine and their theology on the Holy Spirit baptizing. So I assume by your response, that you can't find Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Can you find any scriptural evidence of Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
Why is it so important for you to believe that the Holy Spirit plays no role in the baptism of the Holy Spirit? :unsure:
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
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Of course it matters, as people are basing doctrine and their theology on the Holy Spirit baptizing. So I assume by your response, that you can't find Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Can you find any scriptural evidence of Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
The Holy Spirit does not DO the baptizing, we are baptized IN the Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he [Jesus Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Jesus Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16) John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he [Jesus Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Acts 1:5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

1 Cor 12:13) (ESV) For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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Of course it matters, as people are basing doctrine and their theology on the Holy Spirit baptizing. So I assume by your response, that you can't find Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Can you find any scriptural evidence of Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
He and I already gave you evidence through Paul's writing in 1 Cor 13. Why do you need Jesus or Peter or James to say it too?
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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The Holy Spirit does not DO the baptizing, we are baptized IN the Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he [Jesus Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Jesus Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16) John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he [Jesus Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Acts 1:5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

1. The Holy Spirit baptizes you IN Christ (1 Cor 12:13)
2. A fellow believer baptizes you IN water (Acts 10:47)
3. Christ baptizes you IN the Holy Spirit (Mark 1:8, Acts 1:8)

I explained this in further detail in post #100
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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Why is it so important for you to believe that the Holy Spirit plays no role in the baptism of the Holy Spirit? :unsure:
So I take it that you can't find it mentioned by Peter, John, or James. See post #164 by @Washed. He understands that it is our Lord Jesus Christ that baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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He and I already gave you evidence through Paul's writing in 1 Cor 13. Why do you need Jesus or Peter or James to say it too?
So I take it that you, too, can't find any scriptural evidence of Jesus, Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's turn to Paul, then. Can you find any scriptures in Acts where Saul/Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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John in John 1:33 that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus received water baptism to fulfil Jewish tradition. Jesus did not water baptize any converts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Perhaps post #164 by @Washed will help.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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So I take it that you, too, can't find any scriptural evidence of Jesus, Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's turn to Paul, then. Can you find any scriptures in Acts where Saul/Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
The Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:13 is the Holy Spirit. Also see Ephesians 1:13. So what’s your angle? Who is the Holy Spirit to you? Are you anti-Trinitarian?
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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So I take it that you, too, can't find any scriptural evidence of Jesus, Peter, John, or James telling us that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's turn to Paul, then. Can you find any scriptures in Acts where Saul/Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit baptizes?
"By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."
-1 Cor 12:13
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
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1. The Holy Spirit baptizes you IN Christ (1 Cor 12:13)
2. A fellow believer baptizes you IN water (Acts 10:47)
3. Christ baptizes you IN the Holy Spirit (Mark 1:8, Acts 1:8)

I explained this in further detail in post #100
The Holy Spirit does not DO the baptizing.

Water baptism is not necessary.

Eph 4:5 says there is "one" baptism, and that one baptism is baptism in the Holy Spirit.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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The Holy Spirit does not DO the baptizing.
Not in the first baptism, you are correct about that.
Water baptism is not necessary.
never said it was
Eph 4:5 says there is "one" baptism, and that one baptism is baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Out of context.
Its saying that there is one baptism that makes us ONE with the Lord. That's the theme of Ephesians 4: Oneness.
No one becomes ONE with the Lord through water baptism.

baptism comes after salvation:
"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”
-Acts 10:47
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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The Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:13 is the Holy Spirit. Also see Ephesians 1:13. So what’s your angle? Who is the Holy Spirit to you? Are you anti-Trinitarian?
So I'll take that as another instance of you not being able to find anything in Acts where Saul/Paul says that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's try Romans. How about there?
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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"By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."
-1 Cor 12:13
So I'll take that as another instance of you not being able to find anything in Acts where Saul/Paul says that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's try Romans. How about there?
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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So I'll take that as another instance of you not being able to find anything in Acts where Saul/Paul says that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's try Romans. How about there?
No, there is no mention of this from the specific places you're asking me to find them, according to my knowledge. What's your point?
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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No, there is no mention of this from the specific places you're asking me to find them, according to my knowledge. What's your point?
My point is that we need to understand how Paul, and the audiences to whom he is writing, understood these two baptisms: (1) a believer baptizing another believer in water, and (2) Jesus baptizing a believer in the Holy Spirit.

In Romans 6:1-14, Paul discusses baptism. Is this a baptism in water or a baptism in the Holy Spirit?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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So I'll take that as another instance of you not being able to find anything in Acts where Saul/Paul says that the Holy Spirit baptizes. Let's try Romans. How about there?
I see that you refused to answer my questions in post #170 which is very telling. *I'm convinced that you have an angle and an agenda.* Once again, I'll ask. Who is the Holy Spirit to you? Are you anti-Trinitarian? Also, where do you attend church? :unsure:

Matthew 3:11 - ..I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8 - I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:5 - for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Acts 11:16 - ..John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Jesus used the word 'drink' and 'living water' when referring to receiving the Holy Spirit. (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39) In Ephesians 1:13 we read that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe the gospel, so the Holy Spirit is not passive.

From these scriptures above, both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are involved in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so I don't need to seek elsewhere in scripture to satisfy answering your questions in order to figure that out.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Its saying that there is one baptism that makes us ONE with the Lord. That's the theme of Ephesians 4: Oneness. No one becomes ONE with the Lord through water baptism.
Amen! Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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My point is that we need to understand how Paul, and the audiences to whom he is writing, understood these two baptisms: (1) a believer baptizing another believer in water, and (2) Jesus baptizing a believer in the Holy Spirit.

In Romans 6:1-14, Paul discusses baptism. Is this a baptism in water or a baptism in the Holy Spirit?
Neither.
There are 3 baptisms. You (like many) haven't yet seen the distinction between the first two.
The baptism mentioned in Rom 6:3 is not water baptism.
It is also not "the baptism in the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:6, Acts 2:4).

The baptism that Paul speaks of in Rom 6:3 is the same as he described in Gal 3:27 & 1 Cor 12:13, where the believer is baptized IN Christ, BY the Holy Spirit, at the moment of faith=salvation. This is a baptism of YOUR spirit....The Holy Spirit baptized you INTO Jesus. That's how a person is "IN Christ", their new identity.