The divine plan

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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#1
The divine plan, his gospel and story that he wrote before time even began. The question often arises why he does things the way he does, he is all powerful all knowing and the creator of all and so certain questions often times will nag at the back of the mind even when we are at our strongest. For instance if he is all knowing then did he not know his angels would rebel against him and why did he allow it? After Adam and even sinned cursing mankind with a sinful nature since God is all powerful why did he allow the story to go as it did making his son have to pay the price when he could wiped the sin from Adam and Eve right then and there. Whyis all this pain and suffering such a powerful force in this world and why does he allow it when he could without any trobule simply take all of us home getting rid of the pain and suffering for everyone.

I admit even I sometimes ask these questions even though I know the answer, faith is a funny thing it isn't simply believing and trusting in the unseen and in him and it isn't to be without doubt either. Just as having courage or being brave isn't to be without fear or hesitation it is to have fear and hesitation but choosing to move anyways, just as to have faith isn't to be without doubt but choosing and choosing being the key word here to trust him anyways.

However his plan is quite clever actually, those who were made perfect fell and drew away from him, but in humanity he has an imperfect children who in their imperfection draw near to him seeking that which they lack. Love, comfort, beauty holiness perfection of everykind. The angels had all of this and threw it away but because of this God create man a lesser race who began as they did but God knew before hand all that would transpire he was not unaware of the fall of mankind.

In their arrogance the angels lost the gift father gave them and gave it to man who in mankinds imperfection valued and treasured all he offers because we have not known it. Because of our imperfection we are all the more grateful for his perfection and grace, because we have not known what it is to truly be loved and cherished even a drop of his love is more precious to us than anything. His is a story woven in the deepest of love the first and greatest love story ever written. But of course the deeper the love the deeper the wounds and pain because after all like my signature says Jesus knew more than anyone love hurts.

Perhaps we can never truly grasp and appreciate the depth of the pain he felt by our hands but his love drove his heart and that of the fathers, it was his pain and his suffering that brought us together as a family and it was because we are imperfect that his love was truly shown. What satan and his kin threw away and either didn't fully understand or simply was that blind by arrogance and pride or perhaps even both. A wise women once said ( and if you have read the book or seen the movie you will get this reference) I give you the gift of your flaws.
It is true this world is unfair and painful, love is not the common denominator and it is imperfect in everyway and yet that is the beauty of imperfection.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,396
1,207
113
#2
The divine plan, his gospel and story that he wrote before time even began. The question often arises why he does things the way he does, he is all powerful all knowing and the creator of all and so certain questions often times will nag at the back of the mind even when we are at our strongest. For instance if he is all knowing then did he not know his angels would rebel against him and why did he allow it? After Adam and even sinned cursing mankind with a sinful nature since God is all powerful why did he allow the story to go as it did making his son have to pay the price when he could wiped the sin from Adam and Eve right then and there. Whyis all this pain and suffering such a powerful force in this world and why does he allow it when he could without any trobule simply take all of us home getting rid of the pain and suffering for everyone.

I admit even I sometimes ask these questions even though I know the answer, faith is a funny thing it isn't simply believing and trusting in the unseen and in him and it isn't to be without doubt either. Just as having courage or being brave isn't to be without fear or hesitation it is to have fear and hesitation but choosing to move anyways, just as to have faith isn't to be without doubt but choosing and choosing being the key word here to trust him anyways.

However his plan is quite clever actually, those who were made perfect fell and drew away from him, but in humanity he has an imperfect children who in their imperfection draw near to him seeking that which they lack. Love, comfort, beauty holiness perfection of everykind. The angels had all of this and threw it away but because of this God create man a lesser race who began as they did but God knew before hand all that would transpire he was not unaware of the fall of mankind.

In their arrogance the angels lost the gift father gave them and gave it to man who in mankinds imperfection valued and treasured all he offers because we have not known it. Because of our imperfection we are all the more grateful for his perfection and grace, because we have not known what it is to truly be loved and cherished even a drop of his love is more precious to us than anything. His is a story woven in the deepest of love the first and greatest love story ever written. But of course the deeper the love the deeper the wounds and pain because after all like my signature says Jesus knew more than anyone love hurts.

Perhaps we can never truly grasp and appreciate the depth of the pain he felt by our hands but his love drove his heart and that of the fathers, it was his pain and his suffering that brought us together as a family and it was because we are imperfect that his love was truly shown. What satan and his kin threw away and either didn't fully understand or simply was that blind by arrogance and pride or perhaps even both. A wise women once said ( and if you have read the book or seen the movie you will get this reference) I give you the gift of your flaws.
It is true this world is unfair and painful, love is not the common denominator and it is imperfect in everyway and yet that is the beauty of imperfection.
God has told us that his mind is greater than ours and that we will not be able to understand his ways. God does not make plans, he purposes things. Plans can fail.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#3
As I understand, God uses sin for his glory. No sin = no mercy, no righteousness, now wrath or sovereignty, no love, etc., etc. And in this arena, he predestined each step we take as he uses our experiences to form Christ in us.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#4
As I understand, God uses sin for his glory. No sin = no mercy, no righteousness, now wrath or sovereignty, no love, etc., etc. And in this arena, he predestined each step we take as he uses our experiences to form Christ in us.
Stop blaming God for the sin in the world or in people's lives. Stop thinking God predestined you to sin. You accuse Him of things He is not responsible for.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#5
Stop blaming God for the sin in the world or in people's lives. Stop thinking God predestined you to sin. You accuse Him of things He is not responsible for.
If God does not control you, Satan does. I'll take God any day.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#11
God has told us that his mind is greater than ours and that we will not be able to understand his ways. God does not make plans, he purposes things. Plans can fail.
We can understand his ways to a point, true we connot fully understand but to not know his ways is to not know him. How he does things is indeed not how we do things but he has a pattern and when you grow closer to him you begin to see and understand it more and more because you begin to see and understand his heart more and more. As far as plans failing yes our plans can indeed fail but I have yet to see God's fail
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#12
As I understand, God uses sin for his glory. No sin = no mercy, no righteousness, now wrath or sovereignty, no love, etc., etc. And in this arena, he predestined each step we take as he uses our experiences to form Christ in us.
Exactly :D
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#13
Stop blaming God for the sin in the world or in people's lives. Stop thinking God predestined you to sin. You accuse Him of things He is not responsible for.
That is not what he was saying at all. He was not blaming God in anywaay and he certainly didn't accuse God predestining anyone to be a sinner. He was saying that God (uses) these things not that he made it so
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#14
That is not what he was saying at all. He was not blaming God in anywaay and he certainly didn't accuse God predestining anyone to be a sinner. He was saying that God (uses) these things not that he made it so
Dave is a Calvinist, and that is exactly what he believes. He thinks everything that happens is God's will.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#15
Dave is a Calvinist, and that is exactly what he believes. He thinks everything that happens is God's will.
I don't know what Calvinist is but he isn't wrong. God may allow things to happen but he doesn't always cause it and thus if allows something to happen is that not him letting his will be done?
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#16
I don't know what Calvinist is but he isn't wrong. God may allow things to happen but he doesn't always cause it and thus if allows something to happen is that not him letting his will be done?
It is never God's will for people to sin.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#17
It is never God's will for people to sin.
I think your misunderstanding me. He gave us free will and while it is not his will that we sin he allows us to make our own choices and thus in that respect his will is being done, God is all knowing and knew the ending of this story before it was ever written he knew about the downfall he knew about the sacrafice and he knew the ending as well. Even with the enemy making mankind fall his plan for salvation prevailed anyways, even with free will his plan prevails because he cherishes a willing heart not a controlled one.

Your only focusing on one aspect of the story not the entire thing, you cannot see the bigger picture reading only one line. This isn't about if sin was his will it is about taking a look at the divine plan he laid out how his love and glory was made known.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#18
I think your misunderstanding me. He gave us free will and while it is not his will that we sin he allows us to make our own choices and thus in that respect his will is being done
I do not understand how you can believe that when we sin God's will is being done.

God is all knowing and knew the ending of this story before it was ever written he knew about the downfall he knew about the sacrafice and he knew the ending as well. Even with the enemy making mankind fall his plan for salvation prevailed anyways, even with free will his plan prevails because he cherishes a willing heart not a controlled one.

Your only focusing on one aspect of the story not the entire thing, you cannot see the bigger picture reading only one line. This isn't about if sin was his will it is about taking a look at the divine plan he laid out how his love and glory was made known.
God's plan for our redemption is a wonderful thing, but sin was never God's will. It still isn't.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
25,739
13,592
113
#20
For instance if he is all knowing then did he not know his angels would rebel against him and why did he allow it?
"Allow it" is the key. God could have easily erased Satan and Adam and started from scratch. But God had A Plan of Redemption even before He created angels and men.

That would include sending His Son to earth to become the Lamb of God, so that sinful humans could become children of God, and heirs of God, for eternity. But He could give human beings eternal life only in and through His Son. Therefore God ALLOWED sin and evil to enter into the world.

Also, from God's perspective only about six days have passed since creation, because a thousand years are as a day in His sight. And God has all of eternity in which there will be a New Heavens and a New Earth WHEREIN DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS.