JOHN MACARTHUR ABOUT ASSURANCE

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#41
If you think you could flee sin and be sinless why should sin be covered and rendered unaccounted by faith in His grace?
I don't think i could ever become sinless.. when i say flee sin i mean resist sin.. We can reduce our sinning with perserverence but we can never cease sinning.. That's why we all need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#42
I don't think i could ever become sinless.. when i say flee sin i mean resist sin.. We can reduce our sinning with perserverence but we can never cease sinning.. That's why we all need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
Does your reduced sinning give you salvation or assurance when what God expects is "be ye perfect as I am perfect (Matthew 5:48)"?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#43
Does your reduced sinning give you salvation or assurance when what God expects is "be ye perfect as I am perfect (Matthew 5:48)"?
We are perfected by believing God and Trusting in the Atonement He provided for our salvation.. When all our sins are being forgiven they are forgotten by God and we are as white as wool even while we are a scarlet red in sins..

Isaiah 1: KJV
18 "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

Isaiah 43: KJV
25 "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins."

Psalms 103: KJV
10 "He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. {11} For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. {12} As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. {13} Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him."
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#44
I don't think i could ever become sinless.. when i say flee sin i mean resist sin.. We can reduce our sinning with perserverence but we can never cease sinning.. That's why we all need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
Does your reduced sinning give you salvation or assurance when what God expects is "be ye perfect as I am perfect (Matthew 5:48)"?
We are perfected by believing God and Trusting in the Atonement He provided for our salvation.. When all our sins are being forgiven they are forgotten by God and we are as white as wool even while we are a scarlet red in sins..

Isaiah 1: KJV
18 "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

Isaiah 43: KJV
25 "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins."

Psalms 103: KJV
10 "He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. {11} For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. {12} As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. {13} Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him."
So how do you say your reduced sinning saves you at the end & grants assurance in the present?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#45
Does your reduced sinning give you salvation or assurance when what God expects is "be ye perfect as I am perfect (Matthew 5:48)"?

So how do you say your reduced sinning saves you at the end & grants assurance in the present?
I never said that my reduced sinning gains me anything.. I am only saved by believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement He secured by His death on the cross..
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,058
13,749
113
#46
Jmac is a premil. So how does it go against reformed theology?
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Those who are Calvinists (Reformed) are also Amillennialists. But MacArthur holds to Five Point Calvinism on one hand and the premillennial pre-tribulation Rapture on the other hand. So he is trying to have it both ways and confusing those who listen to him.

That's why I suggest you do your own personal serious Bible study. And that is hard work.
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#47
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Those who are Calvinists (Reformed) are also Amillennialists. But MacArthur holds to Five Point Calvinism on one hand and the premillennial pre-tribulation Rapture on the other hand. So he is trying to have it both ways and confusing those who listen to him.

That's why I suggest you do your own personal serious Bible study. And that is hard work.
How does 5 point Calvinism go against premillennialism?
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#48
I never said that my reduced sinning gains me anything.. I am only saved by believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement He secured by His death on the cross..
The live in couple also admit they aren't sinless & live only by faith in grace given through the atonement. What's the problem then?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,058
13,749
113
#49
How does 5 point Calvinism go against premillennialism?
That is not the issue. The issue is that MacArthur is not consistent in his theology. Calvinists are Amillennialists. Also Dispensationalists who hold to the pre-trib Rapture reject Five Point Calvinism.
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#50
That is not the issue. The issue is that MacArthur is not consistent in his theology. Calvinists are Amillennialists. Also Dispensationalists who hold to the pre-trib Rapture reject Five Point Calvinism.
So what is the issue?
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#51
Are you trusting in your behavior & qualities to earn assurance from God?
No.
It's not about 'earning' assurance.
There's no such thing as 'earning' assurance.
I think you're confusing 'assurance' with 'security'.

The Bible says the assurance that you are really saved comes from seeing Christ in your behavior.
That shows you are indeed a new creation through faith in Christ.
Your behavior is what shows if you really have faith in Christ.
But for security? NO.
Works do not secure salvation.
Works do not make salvation secure.
The security of salvation comes through believing in Christ.
The assurance that you really do believe in Christ comes by seeing Christ in you.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#52
No.
I am displaying the qualities of the Spirit "in increasing measure" (2 Peter 1:8)
I explained this already.
It's not about being sinlessly perfect.
It's about growing up into Christ and away from your sin and moving onto perfection.
It starts with denouncing and confessing your sin.
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#53
No.
It's not about 'earning' assurance.
There's no such thing as 'earning' assurance.
I think you're confusing 'assurance' with 'security'.

The Bible says the assurance that you are really saved comes from seeing Christ in your behavior.
That shows you are indeed a new creation through faith in Christ.
Your behavior is what shows if you really have faith in Christ.
But for security? NO.
Works do not secure salvation.
Works do not make salvation secure.
The security of salvation comes through believing in Christ.
The assurance that you really do believe in Christ comes by seeing Christ in you.
Is your behavior perfect as Christ was perfect in this earth?
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#54
No.
I am displaying the qualities of the Spirit "in increasing measure" (2 Peter 1:8)
I explained this already.
It's not about being sinlessly perfect.
It's about growing up into Christ and away from your sin and moving onto perfection.
It starts with denouncing and confessing your sin.
So when will you see Christ's perfection in your behavior?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#55
The live in couple also admit they aren't sinless & live only by faith in grace given through the atonement. What's the problem then?
I have already explained.. If you want to be forgiven you must acknowledge your sin is sin to God.. If one believes that sinning is wrong one will take steps to at lest make an effort to avoid it.. In this couples case that would either be marrying or separating.. In the end God will judge.. But they are showing by their refusal to marry or separate that they do not actually believe and agree with Gods rule.. They are showing by their actions that they are using the grace of God as a license to sin..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#56
So when will you see Christ's perfection in your behavior?
Upon th day of the reasurection when i shall be transformed into the perfect eternal Being God wants us all to be..
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#57
I have already explained.. If you want to be forgiven you must acknowledge your sin is sin to God.. If one believes that sinning is wrong one will take steps to at lest make an effort to avoid it.. In this couples case that would either be marrying or separating.. In the end God will judge.. But they are showing by their refusal to marry or separate that they do not actually believe and agree with Gods rule.. They are showing by their actions that they are using the grace of God as a license to sin..
They have agreed it is sin & are forgiven by His grace. You seem to be shifting between trusting in atonement and rule.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#58
They have agreed it is sin & are forgiven by His grace. You seem to be shifting between trusting in atonement and rule.
My position is solid.. I am not shifting at all.. For a person to be saved they must believe God.. That means believe His revealed will.. If one believes in the words of God one believes in God.. If one believes in 99% of Gods will, bt disbelieves in His will regarding the way a man and a woman can rightfully engage in a husband and wife relationship. then they have created an Idol version of God who is not the actual God of the Holy Bible.. Believing God and Trusting 100% in the Atonement He provides leads to salvation..

In the end God shall judge these people.. If they have disbelieved Him then they will be among those who cry LORD LORD and He shall reply, i never knew you..

You seem to be seeking to justify these two in their living in sin.. Do you agree that it is ok for them to engage in sexual relationships and to live as husband and wife without being married???
 
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#59
My position is solid.. I am not shifting at all.. For a person to be saved they must believe God.. That means believe His revealed will.. If one believes in the words of God one believes in God.. If one believes in 99% of Gods will, bt disbelieves in His will regarding the way a man and a woman can rightfully engage in a husband and wife relationship. then they have created an Idol version of God who is not the actual God of the Holy Bible.. Believing God and Trusting 100% in the Atonement He provides leads to salvation..

In the end God shall judge these people.. If they have disbelieved Him then they will be among those who cry LORD LORD and He shall reply, i never knew you..

You seem to be seeking to justify these two in their living in sin.. Do you agree that it is ok for them to engage in sexual relationships and to live as husband and wife without being married???
Your faith in the 100% word of God includes both the law &the atonement. Your faith is not wholly on the atonement.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,554
3,583
113
#60
Your faith in the 100% word of God includes both the law &the atonement. Your faith is not wholly on the atonement.
The Law is 100% truth and it's job is to convict / convince people of their sinful state.. The Law is Good.. But a mans attempts at doing the Law will NEVER be 100% perfect.. For all people fall short of the standards of God.. Thus we need to have all the times we fail to do the Law justly forgiven.. And the Gospel Way of salvation provides that Way through which all sinners need to be saved..

We are saved 100% by the grace of God and not by our performance in Law doing..

So i place my faith (trust ) 100% on the Atonement of Jesus for my Salvation..

I believe that the Law is good and that it reveals to me and everyone else who is honest, their desperate need for the Atonement of Jesus to be saved.. So i have absolutely Zero% faith ( trust ) that my attempts at law doing shall see me saved.. Believing the law is good and truth does NOT mean i believe that the Way to be saved is by doing the Law..