Not By Works

[Micaiah-imla]

to try and ADD to that perfect, sufficient sacrifice is actually trampling the Son of God underfoot, and insulting the Spirit of Grace.

This is not what the Bible says trampling of the Son of God is.

Here's the text:

Hebrews 10:
[26] For if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins...[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29] Of how much sorer punishment...shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, where with he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of Grace?

1. Those that were sanctified by the blood of the covenant who wilfully sin trample the Son of God underfoot.
2. Those that were sanctified by the blood of the covenant who wilfully sin shall by devoured by the same fire the devil and his angels shall be devoured by.
3. Those that were sanctified by the blood of the covenant who wilfully sin do despite unto the Spirit of grace by doing so.

How any other interpretation of this plain text can be reached is quite amazing.

 

[mailmandan]

This is not what the Bible says trampling of the Son of God is.

Here's the text:

Hebrews 10:
[26] For if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins...[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29] Of how much sorer punishment...shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, where with he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of Grace?

1. Those that were sanctified by the blood of the covenant who wilfully sin trample the Son of God underfoot.
2. Those that were sanctified by the blood of the covenant who wilfully sin shall by devoured by the same fire the devil and his angels shall be devoured by.
3. Those that were sanctified by the blood of the covenant who wilfully sin do despite unto the Spirit of grace by doing so.

How any other interpretation of this plain text can be reached is quite amazing.

See post #19 from the link below. We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/that-hebrews-10v26-thread.189675/

 

[Micaiah-imla]

mainmandan said:
"To 'sin willfully' in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately".

Where do you get "habitually" from the greek? I scanned a few translations and I have not found one that has "habitually" in this passage.

mailmandan said:
"If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said 'sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all'"

There is no contradiction here. You are sanctified once for all. You cannot be re-sanctified, so don't sin wilfully becuase there is no second chance. It's a grave warning.

mailmandan said:
"A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation"

The scripture in question SPECIFICALLY says sanctified BY THE BLOOD. This can only mean salvation.

 

[Lightskin]

This is Romans 5:20.

It mentioned that the law entered that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. Where sin abounded, not where sins abounds (presently).

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. Once we believe in Christ we are no longer ungodly sinners.

This is summed up in Romans 6:

[1]...Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?...Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

If you're in a restaurant and they refuse to serve you, will you get any food?

Likewise, when sin comes to sit down at the table of your mind, we should not feed its desires.

Something to think about.

I’m not talking about feeding sin, beloved. I’m talking about the magnitude of God’s saving grace.

 

[EleventhHour]

mainmandan said:
"To 'sin willfully' in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately".

Where do you get "habitually" from the greek? I scanned a few translations and I have not found one that has "habitually" in this passage.

mailmandan said:
"If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said 'sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all'"

There is no contradiction here. You are sanctified once for all. You cannot be re-sanctified, so don't sin wilfully becuase there is no second chance. It's a grave warning.

mailmandan said:
"A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation"

The scripture in question SPECIFICALLY says sanctified BY THE BLOOD. This can only mean salvation.

Most sin is willful

When the writer in Hebrews is referencing "willfull sin" the writer is speaking to sin that is committed outside the animal sacrificial system.

All sin has been atoned for by Jesus... making it about intent and motivation does not change this fact.

 

[Lightskin]

But do you willfully sin as the result of deciding you no longer want to trust and believe in Christ?
Probably not.
That is the willful sin that will get you on the wrong side of God's wrath again.


As long as your sin is not you consciously deciding you want nothing to do with Christ anymore you are not guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and trampling on the blood of Christ in contempt.

You don’t believe in Jesus’s death paid for all sins. So which sins besides blasphemy against the Holy Spirit are not covered?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Most sin is willful

I don't.

If I know before hand that what I am about to do is a sin, or if some sinful thought creeps in momentarily, knowing that following through with that thought would be sinful according to the Bible, I will not do it and rebuke it by God swiftly; casting down these imaginations (2 Corinthians 10:5). Something that I was not able to do regularly before becoming believer.

Now there is a matter of sinning in ignorance. The scriptures are clear that there is forgiveness for sins in ignorance.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

You don’t believe in Jesus’s death paid for all sins

I believe that all your sins on the day your believed the gospel were taken away never to be mentioned again. Providing you with a pure conscience before God.

Why would you desire to defile your conscience before God again with willful sin after you have been sanctified?

Especially after the grave warning in Hebrews 10:26?

 

[Lightskin]

I don't.

If I know before hand that what I am about to do is a sin, or if some sinful thought creeps in momentarily, knowing that following through with that thought would be sinful according to the Bible, I will not do it and rebuke it by God swiftly; casting down these imaginations (2 Corinthians 10:5). Something that I was not able to do regularly before becoming believer.

Now there is a matter of sinning in ignorance. The scriptures are clear that there is forgiveness for sins in ignorance.

I’m not attacking you but you stated you set your vehicle at 5mph over the posted speed limit when you’re on a busy highway.

 

[Lightskin]

I believe that all your sins on the day your believed the gospel were taken away never to be mentioned again. Providing you with a pure conscience before God.

Why would you desire to defile your conscience before God again with willful sin after you have been sanctified?

Especially after the grave warning in Hebrews 10:26?

Paul stated he often times did what he did not want, and did not do what he should. I relate to Paul. It’s surprising that you don’t.

There is freedom in God’s grace; not freedom to willfully sin and thump your chest in doing so, but freedom knowing God’s love and grace is always with us and we will never be separated.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I’m not attacking you but you stated you set your vehicle at 5mph over the posted speed limit when you’re on a busy highway.

You need to read my post entirely and use common sense.

And show me the Bible verse that states that setting my cruise control 5 M.P.H. over the limit on an interstate highway (when the majority of traffic flow is whizzing by 10-15 M.P.H. over the limit) is a sin.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Paul stated he often times did what he did not want, and did not do what he should.

No he did not.

He was describing the condition of those who walk after the flesh, in the flesh.

But then he said that we were not in the flesh, but in the Spirit.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't.

If I know before hand that what I am about to do is a sin, or if some sinful thought creeps in momentarily, knowing that following through with that thought would be sinful according to the Bible, I will not do it and rebuke it by God swiftly; casting down these imaginations (2 Corinthians 10:5). Something that I was not able to do regularly before becoming believer.

Now there is a matter of sinning in ignorance. The scriptures are clear that there is forgiveness for sins in ignorance.

The irony of the beliefs of the salvation workers and salvation losers never escapes me.

They deny they sin willfully, but they preach that the blood of Jesus is INSUFFICIENT to save completely, what is MORE willful and sinful than that???

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The irony of the beliefs of the salvation workers and salvation losers never escapes me.

So you sin wilfully?

How can you with good conscience blatantly ignore the word of God and profess faith in God at the same time?

 

[EleventhHour]

So you sin wilfully?

How can you with good conscience blatantly ignore the word of God and profess faith in God at the same time?

You can also ask yourself the same question.

 

[Judges1318]

See post #19 from the link below. We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/that-hebrews-10v26-thread.189675/

Context shows us that the person sanctified by the blood of Christ is indeed a saved person:

"10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." - Hebrews 10:10

"14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." - Hebrews 10:14

"29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:29


This also shows us that being made perfect forever in Christ doesn't mean you can't lose the perfection He gives, but actually means what the chapter itself says it means, that Christ doesn't have to be repeatedly sacrificed. The Sacrifice lasts forever and doesn't need to be repeated. That's how it is 'forever'. It doesn't say you possess it forever. It says nothing about forever possessing the Sacrifice that lasts forever, no matter what:

"1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?" - Hebrews 10:1-2

You only possess the perfection of Christ's one time for all time Sacrifice forever if you continue to believe and trust in it.
That's why the author tells us to continue to believe in the Sacrifice and ministry that lasts forever and does not need to be repeated:

"23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful" - Hebrews 10:23

"14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession." - Hebrews 4:14

Because Christ's Sacrifice is so great and makes us perfect in God's sight and lasts forever, not needing to be repeated like under the old system, we should hold fast the confession of such a great High Priest and ministry. The chapter says nothing about 'forever' meaning you can never lose the effect of Christ's ministry no matter what.

 

[Judges1318]

You can also ask yourself the same question.

Can we take that as a 'yes'?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

You can also ask yourself the same question.

Very well.

I will answer that question.

Romans 2:
[15] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law...[15]...show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness.

Acts 23:
[1]...I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

Now can you answer the question?

 

[mailmandan]

Look, the scriptures have been translated. where do you get "habitually" from the greek? I scanned a few translations and I have not found one that has "habitually" in this passage.

There is no contradictions here. You are sanctified once for all. You cannot be re-sanctified, so don't sin wilfully becuase there is no second chance. It's a grave warning. The scripture in question SPECIFICALLY says sanctified BY THE BLOOD. This can only mean salvation.

There certainly are no contradictions here when you properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine, as I already explained in post #19.

Genuine believers are sanctified once for all and make believers are not, even though they may have been set apart by the blood of Christ (but not saved) while in the company of genuine believers, so there is no contradiction here. Genuine believers believe to the saving of the soul and do not draw back to perdition. Make believers draw back to perdition and do not believe to the saving of the soul. Again, I already thoroughly explained this in post #19.

In 1 John 3:9, Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Doeth no sin (amartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in verse John 4like amartanei in verse John 8 . The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed(sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1 . And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartanei in verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6 . For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1 . A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartaneinhere. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/1-john/1-john-3-9.html

Wuest who is well known for his expert writings on the Greek comments that "The words abides and sins are used here to designate a certain class of individual. Character is shown by one’s habitual actions, not the extraordinary ones. The tense of the verbs is present, the kind of action, continuous, habitual. Thus, “every one who habitually is abiding in Him,” is a saved person, and, “every one who habitually is sinning,” an unsaved person. A Christian as a habit of life is abiding in fellowship with the Lord Jesus. Sin may at times enter his life. But sin is the exception, not the rule. The unsaved person as a habit of life sins continually. “Sins” is present tense, continuous action being indicated. The person who is abiding in Christ is not habitually sinning. The child of God as a habit of life, does righteousness, and sin is not a habit with him. John is not teaching sinless perfection here. Vincent says: “John does not teach that believers do not sin, but is speaking of a character, a habit. Throughout the Epistle, he deals with the ideal reality of life in God, in which the love of God and sinexclude each other as light and darkness.” He does not deny that a Christian sins at times. Indeed he admits the possibility of sin in the Christian’s life in 1Jn 1:9-note, and forbids sin in 1Jn 2:1-note. What John denies here is that a Christian sins habitually. He denies that the life of a Christian is wholly turned towards sin as is that of the unsaved person. (Word Studies from the Greek New Testament) (Bolding added)

https://www.preceptaustin.org/1_john_36_commentary

 

[Judges1318]

Most sin is willful

To my recollection I have never sinned willfully in unbelief.
I have never made a decision to not trust in Christ anymore for any of my sin to have been motivated by a rejection of Christ's forgiveness.
That's a dangerous place to be and I've never been there, thank God.

In all my 34 years as a devout Christian, I assure you I sin out of ignorance, foolishness (a.k.a. stupidity), fear, and weakness, never because I no longer want to believe and trust in the forgiveness of sin I have in Christ.