Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
It’s you who rejects the dual meaning of “sanctified” and you also reject the word “forever” in the passage as well. Hebrews 10:10 clearly states - WE have been sanctified-once for all and verse 14 clearly states - perfected forever THOSE who are sanctified. You need to stop twisting the text.
Sanctified is defined for us right in the passage.
This is not an issue of figuring out what application of 'sanctified' the author is using.
He plainly tell us.
And since the author says 'sanctified' means the sanctified believer in Christ that makes it impossible that 'forever' in the passage means you are saved forever, but rather what it actually says, that the ministry of Christ is what is forever and doesn't need to be repeated.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,490
13,428
113
58
Sanctified is defined for us right in the passage.
This is not an issue of figuring out what application of 'sanctified' the author is using.
He plainly tell us.
And since the author says 'sanctified' means the sanctified believer in Christ that makes it impossible that 'forever' in the passage means you are saved forever, but rather what it actually says, that the ministry of Christ is what is forever and doesn't need to be repeated.
That is your biased interpretation, but it doesn’t fit with the overall context. I have thoroughly explained this to you numerous times, but you insist on fighting against the truth. You are unable to see anything beyond your biased doctrine.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Since you can not support your argument with scripture it is false.
Just do a search for every scripture that states "eternal life"

Eternal Life = OSAS

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
John 10: 28- 30

Physically born once >>> cannot be unborn
Spiritually born once >> cannot be unborn

Jesus words are TRUE and yours are FALSE!
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Just do a search for every scripture that states "eternal life"

Eternal Life = OSAS

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
John 10: 28- 30

Physically born once >>> cannot be unborn
Spiritually born once >> cannot be unborn

Jesus words are TRUE and yours are FALSE!
How does this show that my believing is me trying to save myself?
Don't deflect.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I’m going to cut my neighbor’s grass today. That should cover me for at least two weeks.
Well we all know you would never make it ... every time you saw a sign that read "BEER" that is where you would be.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
That is your biased interpretation, but it doesn’t fit with the overall context. I have thoroughly explained this to you numerous times, but you insist on fighting against the truth. You are unable to see anything beyond your biased doctrine.
Seriously, I'm the one using the overall context.
I'm the one who used the definition of the sanctified person provided right in the passage.
You are the one who jumped out of context and reached for an out of context meaning of a sanctified unbeliever--and one that doesn't even exist at that!

You can't deny it, I'm the one who stayed in context.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Still no chapter and verse to show that my believing is me trying to earn my own salvation, huh?
Your believing is only a part of salvation.

Believe all you want .. without an object (Jesus) for that belief, who secures salvation, your ongoing belief is in vain.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,490
13,428
113
58
Seriously, I'm the one using the overall context.
I'm the one who used the definition of the sanctified person provided right in the passage.
You are the one who jumped out of context and reached for an out of context meaning of a sanctified unbeliever--and one that doesn't even exist at that!

You can't deny it, I'm the one who stayed in context.
Absolutely false, but there is no convincing you otherwise. I used proper Biblical hermeneutics in order to reach my conclusion. You resorted to eisegesis in order to reach your conclusion.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Show me a scripture that I have contradicted.

Mind you, not a OSAS doctrine; I’ll gladly contradict OSAS teaching with scripture as often as the Spirit leads me to do it.

I know she is QUITE capable of DEFENDING her OSAS DOCTRINAL BELIEFS. But I have it saved on my computer. THERE ARE LOTS MORE VERSES THAT SUPPORT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED than I have here, AS TRUTH, SO THIS SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Romans 4:3-5 (NET)
3 For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
4 Now to the one who works, his pay is not credited due to grace but due to obligation.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Ephesians 4:30 (NKJV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (HCSB)
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

><>

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (HCSB)
10 But by God’s grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, yet not I, but God’s grace that was with me.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

><>


We teach that Obedience has NEVER been part of Salvation, HOWEVER, Obedience is part of Our AGAPE LOVE, Rom. 5:5.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me [Born Again], you will keep [After You Have Been Saved] My commands.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden, [when done out of Agape Love.]


Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying love for our Lord Jesus Christ.


Only Obedience that is done out of Agape LOVE, is accepted by GOD. It has NOTHING to do with SALVATION or maintaining it.
The Deeds have to be solely because we LOVE HIM, OR they are Wood, Hay, and Stubble at best, OR they are FILTHY RAGS at Worst.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
J[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.
You are great at these one and two lines zingers, and it been established you use them out of context so it appears you don't really undersand the points being being raised by the writers. You can't just snip the context to support your own purpose.

(Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

(Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

(Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

(Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.

(Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

(Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

(Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

(Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things)

Clueless.