Forgiveness.

[Deuteronomy]

...forgiveness is the token for reconciliation and peace between two parties ,however sometimes the offender knows not of the offense.

Hello G2RBeliever, you’ve mentioned a lot of important points that need to be considered, unfortunately, I won’t be able to do so until this evening.

That said, I’d like to make a comment about one of the points that you made before I leave, the fact that sometimes, “the offender knows not of the offense”, because I think that may be the source of a major problem in getting the process of forgiveness and reconciliation started.

The Lord gives someone who is sinned against these two commands to follow.

Luke 17
3 If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.​

If the sinner/offender “knows not of the offense”, is that not the case because of our failure to do what the Lord commanded us to do

Thanks!

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[G2RBeliever]

Hi Deuteronomy,
Some people are too sensitive while others lack tact and sensitivity.
How do you reconcile forgiveness with these types and yet there are others that just " don't care".

 

[G2RBeliever]

Ok,later then!
Have a wonderful day!

 

[Reformyourself]

Do you really believe that a person is sincere after lying to you seven times in a day??? It has not so much about the number as about the deceit and sincerity.

my ‘Christian friend’ lies to me at least 7 times a day and expects forgiveness without an apology (even denies the proven lies!) after pointing out proverbs 6:16... I can only pray ‘Lord have mercy on his soul’ I cannot forgive him. In fact, he is not ‘a’ Christian or friend.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

490 times?

You should clarify.

 

[p_rehbein]

There are two instances of note in the Gospels. In Luke, 17:4 speaks of specific sins in ONE DAY, seven times, is in order. General or ongoing forgiveness is given as a example in Matthew 18: 21,22. as seventy times seven.

Again, if you already knew this, why did you ask the question? Weird...........

 

[Deuteronomy]

Ok,later then!
Have a wonderful day!

Thank you

 

[tantalon]

[Q
UOTE="p_rehbein, post: 4235351, member: 174109"]Again, if you already knew this, why did you ask the question? Weird...........[/QUOTE] The questions I have asked are to find the level of knowledge of the people of christianchat, and the maturity of their interchange with each other. I already know the answers.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hi Deuteronomy, some people are too sensitive while others lack tact and sensitivity. How do you reconcile forgiveness with these types and yet there are others that just " don't care".

Hello again G2RBeliever, I get what you are saying (the entire subject of Biblical forgiveness & reconciliation often has a ~very~ unsettling and uncomfortable side to it), but shouldn't the more important question be, why are we, as believers, choosing to disobey such clear commands from the Lord (no matter what our sensitivities may be), just so that we can feel better about ourselves

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to argue or debate this subject with you, rather, I'm hoping that we can think through all of it

What has become truly unsettling to me (in the midst of my ongoing look into the Biblical model for forgiveness/reconciliation) is the realization that mainstream, conservative Christianity may have substituted the Biblical mandate (and thereby God's understanding and wisdom concerning all of this) for the world's wisdom instead

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

my ‘Christian friend’ lies to me at least 7 times a day and expects forgiveness without an apology (even denies the proven lies!) after pointing out proverbs 6:16... I can only pray ‘Lord have mercy on his soul’ I cannot forgive him. In fact, he is not ‘a’ Christian or friend.

Hello Reformyourself, first off, I see that you are new around here, so welcome to CChat

As for what you said in your post, you are correct, your "Christian friend" doesn't sound like either

Praying for him is always a ~great~ idea, but saying, "I cannot forgive him", rarely is. Maybe it would be better (for his sake, and for yours) to truly confront him about all of the lies, and tell him how upset they make you .. and then see what he does. If he does not repent and ask you to forgive him, then the ball remains in his court until he does (because you've done exactly what the Lord commanded you to do as the offended friend and sister in Christ, you "rebuked him", by speaking the truth to him .. in love, of course .. e.g. Luke 17:3-4; Ephesians 4:15).

Perhaps you could even go so far as to tell him that "even though he's hurt you with all of his lies, that you'd like to forgive him and get back to being friends, but that reconciling your relationship is truly up to him at this point", because once you've done what the Lord commanded you to do (rebuked/admonished him for lying to you), it's up to him, especially as a Christian, to ask you for your forgiveness (then the ball is back in your court ).

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

~Deut

​

 

[G2RBeliever]

Mr. Duet,I would say this is probably one of the commands that trips people up the most bc it causes confrontation.of behavioural ramifications.

Forgiveness even to our own faults as well as to others,we sometimes are afraid to humble ourselves regardless of which side we are on so that we dont appear weak.

Yet I know we are to uphold one another in weaker times even to pulling them from the fire.

i am rather quick to forgive and rarely hold a grudge.( Im trying....lol)

i would go so far as to say this sin causes more stumbling than judging bc we war with the flesh as well as the enemy to put ourselves in lower esteem.

We also forget as the servant did to look at the big picture of God's forgiveness of us in our lives and the walk to be like Him......At the cross He even prayed for forgiveness of His own in, " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"!

We fail to put our forgiveness of ourselves and others on this grand scale.

 

[Reformyourself]

Hello Reformyourself, first off, I see that you are new around here, so welcome to CChat

As for what you said in your post, you are correct, your "Christian friend" doesn't sound like either

Praying for him is always a ~great~ idea, but saying, "I cannot forgive him", rarely is. Maybe it would be better (for his sake, and for yours) to truly confront him about all of the lies, and tell him how upset they make you .. and then see what he does. If he does not repent and ask you to forgive him, then the ball remains in his court until he does (because you've done exactly what the Lord commanded you to do as the offended friend and sister in Christ, you "rebuked him", by speaking the truth to him .. in love, of course .. e.g. Luke 17:3-4; Ephesians 4:15).

Perhaps you could even go so far as to tell him that "even though he's hurt you with all of his lies, that you'd like to forgive him and get back to being friends, but that reconciling your relationship is truly up to him at this point", because once you've done what the Lord commanded you to do (rebuked/admonished him for lying to you), it's up to him, especially as a Christian, to ask you for your forgiveness (then the ball is back in your court ).

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

~Deut

​

Dear Deuteronomy, thank you for your exhortation. I accept that I should be careful what I blurt out...unfortunately, He doesn’t want me to forgive, only to accept the lies ‘gracefully’. It’s a childhood learned behaviour I think, so I believe healing is the way forward. I honestly don’t know how to forgive (from the heart). I could ‘pretend’ to forgive those who hurt me, but it would be fake...anyway, Its not like I’m perfect...yet

 

[Reformyourself]

I had unforgiveness, for 38 years for a family member. I prayed about it, but then dismissed it as the least of my worries...3 years ago, At a family gathering, I glanced at them, and saw that they were ‘in torment’. I felt real compassion (not of me) & It blew me away. ‘What is impossible with men, is possible with The Lord’.

 

[tantalon]

Secret, or silent forgiveness is rarely effective. Face to face, and eating some humble pie through talking to one another, is what is required. How could they be in torment when the issue of hurts had not yet been addressed? Forgiveness and being forgiven, is an exercise given to US and not an errand for to Lord to "fix".

 

[Lightskin]

How often do I forgive my brother?

Forever and a day. Forgiving releases the one forgiving from self-imposed imprisonment.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Secret, or silent forgiveness is rarely effective. Face to face, and eating some humble pie through talking to one another, is what is required. How could they be in torment when the issue of hurts had not yet been addressed? Forgiveness and being forgiven, is an exercise given to US and not an errand for to Lord to "fix".

Hello Tantalon, I agree, as I can't imagine how our Lord's two commands to us in Luke 17:3 could be any clearer,

1. If your brother sins ... rebuke him.​

2. If he repents ... forgive him.​

It seems to me that the Lord is all about relationships/keeping people together, and bringing them back together by fixing our relationships with one another whenever they are broken , while Satan, on the other hand, is all about dividing us, both from God and from each other This is one of the reasons that I believe godly forgiveness is so important, because it is the first step in reconciling a broken relationship and reestablishing the peace between us that God intends.

Secret/silent forgiveness may allow the offended party to, "feel better", about themselves, but it does absolutely nothing to mend the broken relationship and bring the two parties back together again. In fact, it provides the perfect means for doing the very opposite of that, does it not

I've come to no real conclusions about all of this yet, but as I continue to look into this topic, it seems as if modern-day Christendom has left the Biblical/God-given directives about forgiveness and reconciliation behind, and embraced the wisdom of this world instead. That said, I also think that we need to consider this question, how does the outcome of secret/silent forgiveness line up with Biblical Christianity's call to love our neighbors selflessly, as we love ourselves, as God, in fact, loves us? Is there, in fact, anything ~loving~ about secret/silent forgiveness, and if there isn't, how can we possibly believe that it is God's will for us

Thanks! (I hope you understand that I'm not debating with you about any of this, I'm just throwing out thoughts for consideration as the come to me)

God bless you!

--Deut

 

[Reformyourself]

Secret, or silent forgiveness is rarely effective. Face to face, and eating some humble pie through talking to one another, is what is required. How could they be in torment when the issue of hurts had not yet been addressed? Forgiveness and being forgiven, is an exercise given to US and not an errand for to Lord to "fix".

I could explain, but can’t be bothered ‘I can do ALL things, through CHRIST Who strengthens me...

 

[Reformyourself]

I could explain, but can’t be bothered ‘I can do ALL things, through CHRIST Who strengthens me...

 

[Reformyourself]

Hello Tantalon, I agree, as I can't imagine how our Lord's two commands to us in Luke 17:3 could be any clearer,

1. If your brother sins ... rebuke him.​

2. If he repents ... forgive him.​

It seems to me that the Lord is all about relationships/keeping people together, and bringing them back together by fixing our relationships with one another whenever they are broken , while Satan, on the other hand, is all about dividing us, both from God and from each other This is one of the reasons that I believe godly forgiveness is so important, because it is the first step in reconciling a broken relationship and reestablishing the peace between us that God intends.

Secret/silent forgiveness may allow the offended party to, "feel better", about themselves, but it does absolutely nothing to mend the broken relationship and bring the two parties back together again. In fact, it provides the perfect means for doing the very opposite of that, does it not

I've come to no real conclusions about all of this yet, but as I continue to look into this topic, it seems as if modern-day Christendom has left the Biblical/God-given directives about forgiveness and reconciliation behind, and embraced the wisdom of this world instead. That said, I also think that we need to consider this question, how does the outcome of secret/silent forgiveness line up with Biblical Christianity's call to love our neighbors selflessly, as we love ourselves, as God, in fact, loves us? Is there, in fact, anything ~loving~ about secret/silent forgiveness, and if there isn't, how can we possibly believe that it is God's will for us

Thanks! (I hope you understand that I'm not debating with you about any of this, I'm just throwing out thoughts for consideration as the come to me)

God bless you!

--Deut

Psalm 103

 

[Reformyourself]

Hello Reformyourself, first off, I see that you are new around here, so welcome to CChat

As for what you said in your post, you are correct, your "Christian friend" doesn't sound like either

Praying for him is always a ~great~ idea, but saying, "I cannot forgive him", rarely is. Maybe it would be better (for his sake, and for yours) to truly confront him about all of the lies, and tell him how upset they make you .. and then see what he does. If he does not repent and ask you to forgive him, then the ball remains in his court until he does (because you've done exactly what the Lord commanded you to do as the offended friend and sister in Christ, you "rebuked him", by speaking the truth to him .. in love, of course .. e.g. Luke 17:3-4; Ephesians 4:15).

Perhaps you could even go so far as to tell him that "even though he's hurt you with all of his lies, that you'd like to forgive him and get back to being friends, but that reconciling your relationship is truly up to him at this point", because once you've done what the Lord commanded you to do (rebuked/admonished him for lying to you), it's up to him, especially as a Christian, to ask you for your forgiveness (then the ball is back in your court ).

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

~Deut

​

Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.
Francis of Assisi