Am I saved, or have I lost salvation?

mlssufan01 · Apr 30, 2020

I should note...after having my own issues and wanting to give up church for good, and studying a good bit on scriptures regarding false teachers, I discovered something truly shocking.
There are pastors who run churches who aren't saved. There are many stories of pastors who grew up in the church, wind up in a bible college, get a degree in theology or related field, become a pastor, all because it was a paycheck, and admit to have never being saved; or in other cases saying they walked away during college and at that point it was too late, so just became a pastor. This isn't the case for every church, but it did open my eyes to see that things are not always what they seem.

mlssufan01 · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

lol....yea so this is pretty spot on with my church labeling Hillsong as heretics---if indeed it was prosperity gospel; my church would have despised it...They can't stand any prosperity gospel teaching. In fact, my church in particular didn't even pass buckets or plates around! lol. Honestly, if the prosperity gospel is the issue, I might suggest a reformed/Calvinist church, at least for a start. It's not perfect, but the thing about what I've seen is that the Bible is taught front and center in most cases. Specifically, look for the words "expository preaching." You can bet you will be saturated with Scripture; which in my opinion; is worth working through all the other discomforts I may feel for Calvinism in general, even if I may disagree on some points.

Runningman · Apr 30, 2020

I've had bad church experiences, too, and it did happen when I was a new Christian. It caused me to basically bolt out the door and not come back. Then life happened; it seemed like I blinked and suddenly 10 years had passed. In any case, that was just a part of my journey of repentance, obedience, and faith. I think we all have a story to tell.

Anyway, we can read the Word of God, the Bible, to find numerous references to how to have assurance of salvation. I think these kind of threads are important because they help expose where our faith is weak and where it is strong. We can pray for Jesus Christ to help us here so I recommend you do that.

In the mean time, look up verses on how to have assurance of salvation. Yes, we can be assured that we have salvation. It isn't intended to be a guessing game.

DBurrage · Apr 30, 2020

mlssufan01 said:

lol....yea so this is pretty spot on with my church labeling Hillsong as heretics---if indeed it was prosperity gospel; my church would have despised it...They can't stand any prosperity gospel teaching. In fact, my church in particular didn't even pass buckets or plates around! lol. Honestly, if the prosperity gospel is the issue, I might suggest a reformed/Calvinist church, at least for a start. It's not perfect, but the thing about what I've seen is that the Bible is taught front and center in most cases. Specifically, look for the words "expository preaching." You can bet you will be saturated with Scripture; which in my opinion; is worth working through all the other discomforts I may feel for Calvinism in general, even if I may disagree on some points.

What is Calvinism?

Adstar · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

I read the Bible and it caused me to for the first time understand the Way of salvation.. I was saved the moment i understood the Way of salvation and accepted it with joy..

Reading the Bible moved me to renounce the roman catholic religion that i had been born into.. I never did find a physical church that i could agree with 100% in their doctrines.. But that's ok because the Bible tells me that the real Church is the body of believers who are indwelled by Gods Holy Spirit.. That Unity in the Body is by and through the Holy Spirit..

I have so often seen babes in Christ run to preachers and churches like hill song with their prosperity preaching and get burnt or be lead down a false path.. Believing in a false gospel and trusting in what the Bible calls ""another jesus"" which is not the real LORD Jesus that saves..

So where you really saved???
Well do you believe Jesus ( the gospel messages He gave) ?
Do you trust 100% in the atonement Jesus secured for the forgiveness of your sins by His death on the cross?

As for your feelings about ""the church"" what church the Hillsong one? Yeah He will understand.. sadly sometimes people need to get burnt, sometimes once sometimes twice before the focus on Jesus and place their trust exclusively in Him..

Another point i would just like to make.. Sometimes God allows people to gt caught up in cult for a time so that they become very aware that deception is all over this world.. These people end up being very motivated to get the truth from Gods Word and stand against deception where ever they see it being promoted..

Absolutely · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

Your concerns are too broad.
You are letting money handling ruin the overall deal.

No church is going to agree with everyone.

Shop for a new one. In the new one ,stay away from looking so deeply into the financial arena. You WILL BE disappointed.
Church has 3 main "anointings"
Worship
Preaching or the word delivered
Prayer for needs and impartation after church.

Many times the anointing will be on only one of them.
But that is ok.
Hopefully the anointing is on all 3.

You had a bad experience. But turn that on a dime. Reverse it. Know that now you have come through a test. Now walk in victory. Stand erect and get into worship and dont stop till you break through into Joy.
Then make it a point to walk in joy no matter what.
More trials will come.
That's ok. Now you are a warrior.
Shake off the stupid stuff.
Never let those circumstances have dominion.
Remember...peace is your umpire. When your Spirit is in turmoil, say "time out...I got to get my peace back"
Keep peace and joy with you.
Make yourself worship and make the jump into the supernatural.
What is trying to happen to you is a form of torment. The enemy is walking on your back.
See,to me that proves you are saved.
The devil loves strife bitterness,unforgiveness,etc.
He will use bad happenings to come to you and tell you "you're not even saved"
"This will never get better "
"They did you wrong,they should not have done that"
"I am a loser"
...and so on. All kinds of Victims mess spoken in your ear.
Again shake it off. Tell the enemy "you are a liar. So I know just the opposite belongs to me."
Watch a smile crack on your face and enjoy the freedom.
You are now a victor and not a victim.

Adstar · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

A set of 5 doctrines i hope you avoid..

mlssufan01 · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism will probably explain it better than I can.

It differs from most Christian denominations on the following: they believe in predestination and election. In other words, God chooses , or predestines, who will be saved (Romans 8:28-30). This is probably their most controversial doctrine. The way I understood it is that God is the one who changes a person's heart to repentance and gives them the faith to believe, so almost all work of salvation is done by God to regenerate them and then they simply respond to the call.

They subscribe to the 5 solas.
Grace alone
Faith alone
Christ alone
Scripture Alone
for the glory of God alone

Sola gratia, sola fide, sola christus, sola scriptura, soli de gloria

There is also an acronym that is used to help understand, which is TULIP
Total depravity (all people are sinners)
Unconditional Election (It is God's free choice to save whom He wills)
Limited Atonement (The atonement is for God's chosen people, not for the whole world).
Irresistible Grace - If and when God calls you, you will repent; for He has chosen you.
Perseverance of the Saints - God will bring those He chooses into Heaven in the end, whether before or at end times, and none can or will lose their salvation. (note--should someone walk away from the faith; they would claim that person was never truly saved to begin with). So sort of once saved always saved, sort of kind of, but only if they were really saved.

Hope that all makes sense...At it's core it basically says that God is doing absolutely all the work beginning to end and man has essentially no control except to obey or sin. This would run counter to the Christianity most of America knows of man's choosing to believe in Jesus, which would be classified as Arminian.

mlssufan01 · Apr 30, 2020

Adstar said:

I would argue to avoid churches that aren't preaching Scripture. With online services being a thing right now, there is a Pentecostal Arminian preacher I very much like who teaches verse by verse - Calvary Chapel Ontario--I would not have a problem recommending him as a resource.
I would also have a problem recommending some Calvinist churches that basically don't use the Bible at all.
I recommend churches that are heavily saturated in biblical teaching; I argue to avoid churches that use less than 5 verses per sermon.
I would argue if there is more singing or entertainment than biblical teaching, avoid such a place.

John146 · Apr 30, 2020

Dave-L said:

Really? Where? What churches? You’re able to make this judgment?

DBurrage · Apr 30, 2020

Adstar said:

Interesting,vwhat is it exactly, out of curiosity?

Dave-L · Apr 30, 2020

John146 said:

Have you studied cults?

John146 · Apr 30, 2020

Dave-L said:

Not really, going strictly with the Bible.

DBurrage · Apr 30, 2020

mlssufan01 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism will probably explain it better than I can.

It differs from most Christian denominations on the following: they believe in predestination and election. In other words, God chooses , or predestines, who will be saved (Romans 8:28-30). This is probably their most controversial doctrine. The way I understood it is that God is the one who changes a person's heart to repentance and gives them the faith to believe, so almost all work of salvation is done by God to regenerate them and then they simply respond to the call.

They subscribe to the 5 solas.
Grace alone
Faith alone
Christ alone
Scripture Alone
for the glory of God alone

Sola gratia, sola fide, sola christus, sola scriptura, soli de gloria

There is also an acronym that is used to help understand, which is TULIP
Total depravity (all people are sinners)
Unconditional Election (It is God's free choice to save whom He wills)
Limited Atonement (The atonement is for God's chosen people, not for the whole world).
Irresistible Grace - If and when God calls you, you will repent; for He has chosen you.
Perseverance of the Saints - God will bring those He chooses into Heaven in the end, whether before or at end times, and none can or will lose their salvation. (note--should someone walk away from the faith; they would claim that person was never truly saved to begin with). So sort of once saved always saved, sort of kind of, but only if they were really saved.

Hope that all makes sense...At it's core it basically says that God is doing absolutely all the work beginning to end and man has essentially no control except to obey or sin. This would run counter to the Christianity most of America knows of man's choosing to believe in Jesus, which would be classified as Arminian.

Definitely sounds like something made up by a stiff old man.
I think I'll stay away.

I have no interest in getting involved with people's sill ideas or doctrines.

Dave-L · Apr 30, 2020

John146 said:

It depends where you draw the line. Some teach noting but false doctrine. Where others have a mix. None that I know of that are pure.

John146 · Apr 30, 2020

Dave-L said:

According to you, no one on the discussion board is saved. Yes? Because most view things different than you.

Dave-L · Apr 30, 2020

John146 said:

Obviously several are. But that's only to say the others are less obvious.

mlssufan01 · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

lol technically speaking the acronym wasn't put on there til much later by other Christians on to label what he taught.

As I mentioned, I do think there are solid non calvinist teachers out there; this is one:
https://www.ccontario.com/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChnVoek_V6NgBi0wSjapYmA

As I mentioned, don't look at the labels, look at the amount of Scripture being taught, wherever you go. It doesn't really matter what denomination it is; it matters how much Bible they're teaching and living out.

Hungry · Apr 30, 2020

DBurrage said:

This can’t be made any simpler; rebirth is being born of Spirit. Man is a dichotomy. The vessel is the flesh and the spirit is the energy of the ego like an energy frequency. Our emotions adjust that frequency. The endocrine system is the system of hormones that cause our vessel to desire self preservation and reproduction. This is flesh. All sin is derived from feeding this system excess. It causes fear that leads to stealing and murder. Also lust that leads to adultery and covetousness. When you force yourself to ignore this desire it doesn’t eliminate the urge just the fruit of desire. When you realize that this carnal desire produces no lasting fruit and focus your desire to serve the Creator as intended in the beginning, then the voice of the flesh is muted. With true emptiness of desire, and freedom from sin and lust our spirit frequency atunes itself to be a receiver of the Holy Spirit that is like a radio signal being broadcast. It’s always present but only made manifest with radio receivers, tuned into that frequency. When you are tuned into a radio station, you can hear the music and it is obvious. Also when you make connection with the Heavenly Father, you also hear His voice and feel the oneness in connection with all other receivers. The vine and the branches. We are grafted metaphysically. We become part of Christ. We are accepted only as part of Christ. He is the Head, we are the hands (body). Our desire is not for self, but only for Him. If you cannot fathom this and this sounds completely wrong then I question your rebirth.

I mentioned guilt and sin separate us. This is why we accept Christ as our sacrifice. If we have FAITH that HiS atonement was sufficient then we can nail our sins and subsequent guilt to the cross. If we believe Yeshua is just a good man then His sacrifice is meaningless. If you understand the sacrifice system then you get it. Let me reveal to you a mystery, as the Lord revealed to me. The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is alagory. When you know right from wrong, then do wrong you have guilt. The fruit from knowledge is guilt. This is what is what Paul was illustrating in Romans 9 (I think), if it hadn’t been for the Law I wouldn’t know I was sinning. Dogs in the wild act as dogs were created to do. The hunt the weak, and behave naturally. When we teach them right from wrong they have guilt and behave unnaturally. We were taught from birth right and wrong, which introduces guilt which separates us from God metaphysically. Faith in the sacrifice eliminates guilt, from the invention of the sacrificial system. This is meat. There will be people who can’t chew or swallow this with their little teeth. I empty myself so the Lord can fill me. I pray for wisdom so He will teach me. This is what He taught.

DBurrage · Apr 30, 2020

I might be being incredibly lazy here, but I've started watching a film based on the gospel of John:

Am I saved, or have I lost salvation?

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