Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Jesus exposed the error of the pharisees' doctrine.

Dave-L said:

Claim stated here

And here is where you said you would answer the questions.

Thus far ... no answer.

hmmmm appears you follow in the steps of your father ...

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Go argue with someone who likes to argue.

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

But he didn't argue with them. Try being more like him.

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

Support your claim that Scripture has been changed.

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

who's arguing???

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Who's "they"?

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

who's arguing???

are you arguing??? you need to take a dose of your own medicine and "try being more like" the Lord Jesus Christ.

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Are you stalking me?

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Whose stalking?

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Did God send lying spirits to Ahab?

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

So now discussing Scripture is "stalking"???

My how you twist and turn ...

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

Do you mean "who's" ???

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

No.

God told Ahab that his prophets were lying to him.

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

But is says he sent lying spirits to deceive.

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Why do you persist in beating a dead horse? I'm not interested in answering your digs.

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

Read again:

Ahab's prophets lie to Ahab:

1 Kings 22:6 Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall I go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

God tells Ahab that his (Ahab's) prophets lied to Ahab:

1 Kings 22:19-23 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

God's prophecy to Ahab if Ahab goes to Ramothgilead:

1 Kings 22:17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.

1 Kings 22:28 And Micaiah said, If thou return at all in peace, the LORD hath not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you.

reneweddaybyday · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

Nor have you answered questions you said you would answer.

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

Because God sent them.

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

Dave-L · May 3, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

If I had an interest in your posts, I would take time with them.

cv5 · May 3, 2020

Dave-L said:

Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism.
Making sense out of Daniel’s 70 weeks using the Septuagint. The bible translation Jesus and the disciples used.

“And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks: and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted. And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations. And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation.” Daniel 9:25–27 (Brenton LXX En)

Notice how easy it is to understand this passage when we show how Christ fulfilled it. It simply says Jesus the prince will come after the 62 + 7 weeks. That is after the 69th week, which is another way of saying at the beginning of the 70th week.

They will destroy (crucify) him. And he will destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince (Titus) that is coming.

And one week shall establish the [new] covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away [on the cross]: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations [continued animal sacrifice]; and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation.”

If we compare the Dispensational version, it does not fit and even contradicts the Septuagint translation. Using the English bible, the Dispensationalists turn Jesus into the Antichrist found somewhere in the distant future.
“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

H. A. Ironside writes: “The moment the Messiah died on the cross (v26), the prophetic clock stopped. There has not been a tick upon that clock for nineteen centuries [when he wrote this]. It will not begin to go again until the entire present age has come to an end, and Israel will once again be taken up by God.”[ii]

So they start by inserting a gap after the crucifixion. And turn Jesus who fulfilled the prophecy into to Antichrist sometime in the future. With thousands of years now passed and counting.
[A]nd the people of the prince (Antichrist) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he (Antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.” Daniel 9:25–27 (KJV 1900)
But, for this to happen things must happen before the severed 70th week begins.
One, Antichrist supposedly contracts or covenants with the Jews, and in the middle of the 70th week when he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to end.
So they think this must mean there will be a rebuilt temple and animal sacrifices before this can happen. So they take it upon themselves to prophecy this will happen. Even though scripture doesn’t mention it.
Also since the people of the prince are Romans, they take it upon themselves to prophesy a restored Roman Empire. Again based on a gap scripture never mentions and doesn’t allow for in the Septuagint. It is all guesswork about what might happen if there were such a gap. And then arrogantly prophesying it will happen.
Based on the idea of what might happen if there were such a gap, the bible scavenger hunt begins. Prophecy buffs world-wide looking for proof texts to support a third temple, a restored Roman Empire and a return to animal sacrifices. Something contextual scripture knows nothing of and, the book of Hebrews rejects.
And more scavenger hunting with many obsessing over the media for clues about a rebuilt temple, a revived Roman Empire, or anything mentioning Russia. And who the Antichrist might be. In my lifetime it was Henry Kissinger, Gorbachev, and President Obama who were prime suspects. Before that it was Stalin, Hitler, or any other tyrant who captured the media. With everything from SS numbers to microchips being the Mark of the Beast.
Often they assign new interpretations to already fulfilled prophecies to bolster their views. The Great Tribulation of AD 70 reassigned to the missing 70th week. The “rapture” on the last day after the resurrection according to Jesus and Paul, moved to the 70th week 1007 years before the end, or there about.

And it influences US foreign policy, duped politicians in top levels tipping the scales towards nuclear war thinking it is inevitable.[iii] Becoming self-fulfilled prophecy based on what might happen if there were such a gap.

Everything from Russia marching on Israel according to a heavily re-written Ezekiel 38. Fulfilled long ago in the book of Esther by nations of the Persian Empire. Now imported into modern times with Ezekiel’s horses, swords, and spears, originally aimed at stealing Israel’s cattle. Turned into submarines, aircraft carries, missiles, tanks, and modern Warcraft [iv] to destroy Israel, not to steal their cattle.

Where did Dispensationalism come from? A brief sketch shows the Jesuits borrowed from an old heresy that inserted a gap in Daniel’s prophecy. Why? Because the Protestants identified the Papacy as Antichrist, and people were leaving the church in droves. The Jesuits countered this trying to prove the Papacy is not the Antichrist. If people would accept the gap version of Daniel, the Antichrist could not be the Pope. Because the Antichrist would not appear anytime soon, but in the distant future.[v]

In time this Counter Reformation lie caught on to where it now covers the world.

This is the Bible Jesus Used
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/tips/what-bible-did-jesus-use-11638841.html

[ii] Harry A. Ironside, The Great Parenthesis: Timely Messages on the Interval Between the 69th and 70th Weeks of Daniel’s Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1943).
[iii] Prophecy and Politics Grace Halsell
[iv] The Battle of Gog and Magog Fulfilled in Esther By Phillip G. Kayser · Esther 9:1-32 · 2002-3-1
[v] Dispensational Truth; pg. 5 Clarence Larkin

I wouldn't get too hung up on the LXX that we possess today. Though I agree that it is clearly more accurate than the Masoreic, there is yet an error in exodus 12:40. My point is that there were probaby several or many LXX available to Paul and the apostles. All we have left today is the Alexandrian LXX (Which was found fairly recently actually).

FYI The Alexandrian LXX adds about 1700 years to the time span of the genesis patriarchs!
Which is certainly correct. The reason for the errors in the Masoretic are well known.

Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Well-known member