“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)
Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism
- Thread starter Dave-L
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A couple of multiple choice questions for you, Dave-L:
When someone gets in their car and drives through a red light and hits another car, does the victim:
Another multiple choice question, Dave-L:
When you sin, is it:
When someone gets in their car and drives through a red light and hits another car, does the victim:
(1) sue the automobile manufacturer because it “created something” and therefore “caused it to happen”.
(2) sue the person who drove through the red light.
Another multiple choice question, Dave-L:
When you sin, is it:
(1) because God "caused it to happen"
(2) because you disobeyed God's instruction?
In 1 Kings 22:19-23, God revealed to Micaiah that Ahab’s prophets were lying to him.
Micaiah revealed that information to Ahab.
God revealing to Micaiah and Michaiah revealing to Ahab is not “God causing evil”.
The true prophecy from God as revealed to Micaiah was:
We know vs 17 and vs 28 were the words of the Lord because that is what came to pass ...
And we know the words of the false prophets of Ahab were not the words of the Lord because the false prophets told Ahab:
God's Word tells us how we can recognize a false prophet in Deuteronomy 18
Deuteronomy 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
We know that Ahab's prophets spoke "presumptuously" because what they told Ahab and Jehoshaphat did not come to pass.
We know that Micaiah spoke truth because what was prophesied by Micaiah did come to pass.
No.
God knowing Adam would sin does not equal God "causing Adam to sin".
What God "planned" in response to Adam's sin is redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ.
I have children, Dave-L. When I tell my children to do something or tell them not do something, and they don't do what I told them to do or do what I told them not to do, that is not me "causing my child to sin".
Micaiah revealed that information to Ahab.
God revealing to Micaiah and Michaiah revealing to Ahab is not “God causing evil”.
The true prophecy from God as revealed to Micaiah was:
1 Kings 22:17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.
and
1 Kings 22:28 And Micaiah said, If thou return at all in peace, the LORD hath not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you.
We know vs 17 and vs 28 were the words of the Lord because that is what came to pass ...
1 Kings 22:36 is fulfillment of prophecy in 1 Kings 22:17
1 Kings 22:35 is fulfillment of 1 Kings 22:28
Additionally, 1 Kings 22:28 is fulfillment of 1 Kings 21:19
And we know the words of the false prophets of Ahab were not the words of the Lord because the false prophets told Ahab:
1 Kings 22:6 ... And they said, Go up; for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
1 Kings 22:11 ... With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.
1 Kings 22:12 ... Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the king's hand.
God's Word tells us how we can recognize a false prophet in Deuteronomy 18
Deuteronomy 18:
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
We know that Ahab's prophets spoke "presumptuously" because what they told Ahab and Jehoshaphat did not come to pass.
We know that Micaiah spoke truth because what was prophesied by Micaiah did come to pass.
No.
God knowing Adam would sin does not equal God "causing Adam to sin".
What God "planned" in response to Adam's sin is redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ.
I have children, Dave-L. When I tell my children to do something or tell them not do something, and they don't do what I told them to do or do what I told them not to do, that is not me "causing my child to sin".
It is not "evil" for God to plan for the redemption of mankind after He "foresees a wicked world and then creates it" ...
Ephesians 3:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
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@Dave-L ... interesting to note you will not answer the simple questions I asked in Post #363
Another multiple choice question, Dave-L:
When you sin, is it:
When someone gets in their car and drives through a red light and hits another car, does the victim:
(1) sue the automobile manufacturer because it “created something” and therefore “caused it to happen”.
(2) sue the person who drove through the red light.
Another multiple choice question, Dave-L:
When you sin, is it:
(1) because God "caused it to happen"
(2) because you disobeyed God's instruction?
THIS is where you have it SO wrong brother. Just because we disagree on this issue does NOT mean we are divided. The way we speak to each other here suggest we are, but my pastor believes as you do and I believe that I am exactly were I am because God put me there. For His glory, not any of our "rightness". No need for division at all that I see. If we get this idea that any little disagreement is a "
DIVISION" out of our heads, and we might even be able to discuss with each other without looking like enemies to each other to the rest of the world looking in. I don't know how you can make divisions here with brothers the Lord has spiritually resurrected, and reconciled to the Father over a disagreement. Are you suggesting we can't be saved if we disagree with you on this matter? I believe once I ask it like this you'll agree at least somewhat. I hope anyway.