creationist debate?

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Apr 5, 2020
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“Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;
He eats grass like an ox.
16 See now, his strength is in his hips,
And his power is in his stomach muscles.
17 He moves his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
18 His bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.
19 He is the first of the ways of God;
Only He who made him can bring near His sword.

No, I do not think it could be a whale..

the word behemoth, occurring in Job 40:15, [[is not]] a (Hebrew word), the plural of behemah, but a word of Egyptian origin signifying "water ox."

Behemoth (/ b ɪ ˈ h iː m ə θ, ˈ b iː ə-/; Hebrew: בהמות ‎, behemot) is a beast mentioned in Job 40:15–24. Suggested identities range from a mythological creature to an elephant, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, or buffalo.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I wouldn't consider myself avid, its just a direction I lean towards
I remember the first time as teen when I read the theory in my Scofield reference bible how excited I was. I finally had answers to the age of the earth and dinosours and all this evolution that was being promoted in school..
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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This is in relationship that Peter in 2 Peter 3:6 was discussing a Flood before Noah's and it was caused by Satan.

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:



God Formed The Earth To Be Inhabited Turn your Bible with me to,
Isaiah 45:18 18 “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD, and there is none else.”

Our Heavenly Father “formed” the earth to be inhabited. He formed the earth for people, animals, insects, and plants to thrive.
He did not form the earth “without form, void”, full of “darkness” and covered in water, nor could life emerge from the earth if it was “an indistinguishable ruin”.

God did not create the earth “in vain” (Strong’s: H8414) which is the same Hebrew word we find in Genesis 1:2 being “without form”. Jehovah, our Heavenly Father is telling us plainly, He did not create the earth “vain,” He did not create the earth “without form”.
Instead, He created the earth with “form” (Strong’s: H3335) which means,

“To mould into a form; especially as a potter”.
Our Father is the Potter who molded the earth into form, He “established” (Strong’s: H3559) the earth which means He “perfected” it, (Isaiah 64:8).

Scripture makes it abundantly clear, our Father “is not the author of confusion,” He is not the Creator of “a desolation,” “but of peace” and ‘perfection’, (1 Corinthians 14:33, Psalms 18:30).

Isaiah 45:18 perfectly aligns with Genesis 1:2 when we understand “was” should have been translated “became”.

These facts bring harmony to the Scriptures. He formed the earth in perfection, but it “became without form, void,” and full of “darkness” due to Satan’s Sin in “The World That Was”, “before the heavens and earth which are now.”

The World That Was “Became” Covered In Water Our Father is gracious enough to provide us with multiple witnesses to the facts we have covered so far. We are going to turn our Bible to the book of Psalms, and we should understand Psalms 104:5-30 perfectly overlays with Genesis 1:1-31.

Psalms 104:5 5 “Who laid the foundations of the earth that it should not be removed for ever.”

Jehovah, our Heavenly Father laid the foundations of the earth “in the beginning” as Genesis 1:1 documents. Scripture makes it clear, the earth will never be removed, (Genesis 8:22).

When this took place is unknown to mankind, it could have been millions or even billions of years ago. I am sure one day our Father will provide us with these details.

Psalms 104:6 6 “Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.”

While Psalms 104:5 explains our Father “laid the foundations of the earth” in the beginning, verse 6 explains He then covered the earth with water. Meaning, it was not covered with water before, but “became” covered in water, “became without form, void” and full of “darkness” as we learned in Genesis 1:2.

Scripture provides us with even more clarity and detail by explaining there was so much water it “stood above the mountains”. Simply meaning, there was no “dry land” which completely aligns with the state of the earth as outlined in Genesis 1:2;9 until “the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters,” during the Seven Days of Genesis.

For our Father to create the earth in ‘perfection’ and then destroy “The World That Was” by covering the earth in water means something happened. There had to be a reason for Him to take such action. As we have explained, this was due to Satan’s Sin in The First Earth Age.

This is the earth age and its destruction which Peter describes as the world that was, caused by Lucifer and the angels who followed him, Revelation 12:4. This is not describing Noah’s flood, which is of this second and present earth age, the age of the judgment of all men. The flood of Genesis 6 had the family of Noah, birds, and no mention of cities which were destroyed. In verse twenty-two, God tells us of the shortcomings of His children during this present earth age, because there is hardly any teaching of the 1st earth age and its overthrow, yet the scientific community knows that this earth had undergone turmoil at one time.
One problem sir with your reference to 2 Peter 2:6...backing up to 2 Peter 2:5, Peter clearly refers to NOAHś flood and not another earth age.

2Peter 2:5-6

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
the word behemoth, occurring in Job 40:15, [[is not]] a (Hebrew word), the plural of behemah, but a word of Egyptian origin signifying "water ox."

Behemoth (/ b ɪ ˈ h iː m ə θ, ˈ b iː ə-/; Hebrew: בהמות ‎, behemot) is a beast mentioned in Job 40:15–24. Suggested identities range from a mythological creature to an elephant, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, or buffalo.
Look at the description God gave. Take this as what this creature is. And not what some man thinks.

all the animals you just promoted do not resemble even in the slightest all of the characteristics. In fact it is not even close

To be honest the ONLY creature I can see which would fit every characteristic is a brontosaur like creature..
 
Apr 5, 2020
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I´ve read your post with regards to the dinosaur age, after my first post to you regarding the firmament, and your post stops me in my tracks...I do not have a response....yet....

Maybe I will
Maybe I won´t.

I have to pray and think on it and believe, if HE is willing, that HE will give me an answer.
I tell you sir...I KNOW when HE answers me...and until then, I won´t open my mouth.

But if HE doesn´t, then this is all in line to ¨foolish geneology¨

It does NOTHING to change the STORY of our salvation in, by and through CHRIST...which is all HIS WORD ever testified and pointed us to



I've learned God can make a donkey speak, so I am never amazed at what the possibilities are with God. It's a puzzle, the Word of God, and all throughout it are pieces that fit together. Sometimes when the pieces are together it makes sense, other times we must trust God because ultimately His ways and Thoughts are greater than ours.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Yes, 9 years! It has been a long time...seek and you will find. “By their fruits you will know them” & “test every spirit, to see if it is from God”
Well perhaps do a study on what "fruits" are within context of that passage.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Why cant someone accept the resurrection if they dont believe the creation account as 24hour periods? I agree its 24hour periods, that is what our week is based on, but just out of curiosity im asking.
They can and that is what THE WORD of GOD ultimately points to...CHRIST...for the TESTIMONY of JESUS...IS (INDEED- my emphasis)...THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY....
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Look at the description God gave. Take this as what this creature is. And not what some man thinks.

all the animals you just promoted do not resemble even in the slightest all of the characteristics. In fact it is not even close

To be honest the ONLY creature I can see which would fit every characteristic is a brontosaur like creature..


I have and a Mastodon is an elephant times 10. Outside the alligator, the mastodons heritage leads to something still in existence today. I first claimed mastodon and believe that is what this speaks of.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
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I've learned God can make a donkey speak, so I am never amazed at what the possibilities are with God. It's a puzzle, the Word of God, and all throughout it are pieces that fit together. Sometimes when the pieces are together it makes sense, other times we must trust God because ultimately His ways and Thoughts are greater than ours.
Please reread 2 Peter 2:5 and 6 together
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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Anacortes, WA
I remember the first time as teen when I read the theory in my Scofield reference bible how excited I was. I finally had answers to the age of the earth and dinosours and all this evolution that was being promoted in school..
Oh no. I don't believe the gap theory solves any questions about the age of the universe. I am a conservative. I believe God made the earth in 6 literal days. The gap could have been any amount of time, or independent of time.

When God made Adam and Eve, I don't think He made two babies and a field of dirt and gave them a bag of seeds to plant and said "here you go, good luck". No, I believe He made two human adults and a world with age accounted for in order to sustain life. E.g. tree rings already in the trees.
I believe God created the universe in 6 literal days, with the appearance of age. In this case the universe may appear older, when it is actually not.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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One problem sir with your reference to 2 Peter 2:6...backing up to 2 Peter 2:5, Peter clearly refers to NOAHś flood and not another earth age.

2Peter 2:5-6

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;


It's 2 Peter (3):

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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It’s like Groundhog Day 🙄
Luke 16:31
But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
If you go back and reread all that HE said with your above referenced scripture, HE went on further to say, IT WAS MOSES WHO SPOKE OF ME....

HE was NOT referring to the creation account sir, or anything else for that matter, but HIMSELF...
For everything that MOSES spoke of were hidden pictures, and symbols, and prophecies, and words that pointed to....HIM
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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who wrote that saying you bolded?
No it doesn, for you FIRST said, it was in regards to another type of destruction by water when you referred to 2 Peter 2:6...and you did not include 2 Peter 2:5 which CLEARLY references Noah´s flood
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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This does NOT change 2 Peter 2:5...Peter had already referred to the world that was overflowed by water, as Noahś flood, which indeed they were ignorant to and because they did not listen to Noah, a preacher of righteousness (which Peter also refers to in this letter) they did indeed perish

You referenced 2 Peter 2. initially as your support of another flood, but you left off 2 Peter 5 as the identifier of NOAH´S flood, when you used 2 Peter 2:6 as your support for this opinion....and you do understand that you can not separate 2 Peter 2 from 2 Peter 3.

The whole letter must be read in context for FULL understanding.