Not By Works

[cv5]

First never loss of justified status in view.
Believers in view by the author.

Hebrews 6 - A focus on repentance being a one time event, which is not repeated like the animal sacrifices. The Hebrews thinking that they needed to be born again and again when they sinned instead of relying on the one sufficient sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 10 - Once again clarifying the all sufficient work of Jesus even for willful sin ( the new and living way) which was not covered by the animal sacrifice for sin. The author bringing assurance and yet reminding them there are temporal consequences for sin and the damage it does to the soul.

I agree in principle. Clearly the audience are saved individuals. The primary emphasis is I believe exhortation to faithful perseverance, and a re-amplification of the principles of the New Covenant.

Hebrews 6: "we" "us" "you" (those who persevere in the faith, the saved) vs "those" (who abandon the faith like Cain, the lost).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith I believe often involves letting go of some form of control. Faith involves trusting another.

By going to the dentist and letting my teeth get worked on, I demonstrate a level of faith yet I could still tense up instead of relax. Yet when I relaxed more it was better( though I could have been still been a bit tense). Thankfully the dentist I had was reassuring so that helped.

this sort of explains the christian life.. When we relax. all goes well. when we tense up in lack of faith. it does not go as well.. And God. Like the dentist, Is always reassuring..

Thats why you let the dentist ocntinue, and why we never lose faith in God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its gone a bit quiet here. Just past midnight and I dont seem to be able to sleep. Perhaps too much caffeine.

I have that problem alot..lol

 

[BillG]

I didn't say it does.

We can tell who came to the Lord because they hated their lives, and who came to the Lord to just get a free ticket out of jail by whether or not they are in a struggle with their old lives or have a 'it doesn't matter' Freegrace attitude about their sin.

did you come to the Lord because you hated your life or because the Holy Spirit convinced you that Jesus loved you so much that he died for you and accepted you as you were when you come to him and placed your faith in him?

We need to remember that Jesus said he needed to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin. That sin was not that of the flesh.
I'm sure you know that.

I think generally based on experience those who come to Jesus and place their faith in him do so because they realise how much he loves them and accepts them.

They tend to be broken hurt people. In need of love and acceptance. The very people Jesus sought and seeks out. Tired and weary, marginalised, downtrodden and so on.

Yet they sin as result of this, but do not come to Jesus to stop sinning as such but because they realise they need Jesus and his love and acceptance.

Now when they do so they should be discipled as to what it means to follow Jesus.
Allow Jesus to increase so the self decreases. Faith in Jesus is not a meal ticket to sin but a ticket to become more like him.

Grace covers our sin but grace also helps us to not want to sin and ask the Holy Spirit to work in us to become more like Jesus.

This takes time of course.

Thing is I know many belivers who are not willing to give this time and expect instant change. They do not even bother to understand what is going on with them. Bible says now go do.

 

[VCO]

Exod 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
----------------

What about the statues of TWO ANGELS ON TOP OF THE ARK of the COVENANT.

YOU SEE, it does not BECOME a Graven Image until you make it to BOW DOWN BEFORE IT as if it were GOD.

The Two Angels on top of the Ark of the Covenant, do not count, because PEOPLE only bowed down to what GOD placed in the ARK, because IT CAME FROM GOD, written by GOD.



By the same token, that would make multiple statues of Mary, Graven Images, because in the Catholic Church, they are Made to bow down to them.

 

[cv5]

I have that problem alot..lol

I have cut waaaaay back on the caffeine the last four months and I feel much much better!
It wasn't allowing my parasympathetic nervous system to kick into gear and relax.

 

[walknlight]

The part you added.

Unbelief and its offspring disobedience!

And yet justified by God...

 

[walknlight]

"those" who abandon the faith like Cain,

Cain's abandoned faith?

You have scripture for that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have cut waaaaay back on the caffeine the last four months and I feel much much better!
It wasn't allowing my parasympathetic nervous system to kick into gear and relax.

Sadly, in a work from home status I am drinking more than usual My hyper status is on overdrive at points during the day..lol

 

[cv5]

Cain's abandoned faith?

You have scripture for that?

It's implied, as he was given instructions for the proper form of ordained sacrifices just like Abel (and almost certainly others as well), yet did not follow them. When God graciously attempted to correct him (giving him an opportunity for repentance).......well you know the rest of the story.

The point is that Cain was engaging in worship, not in faith, but by his own form, efforts and works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's implied, as he was given instructions for the proper form of ordained sacrifices just like Abel (and almost certainly others as well), yet did not follow them. When God graciously attempted to correct him (giving him an opportunity for repentance).......well you know the rest of the story.

The point is that Cain was engaging in worship, not in faith, but by his own form, efforts and works.

It has been said cain was the first one to attempt to relate with God through religion.

 

[VCO]

What about the statues of TWO ANGELS ON TOP OF THE ARK of the COVENANT.

YOU SEE, it does not BECOME a Graven Image until you make it to BOW DOWN BEFORE IT as if it were GOD.

The Two Angels on top of the Ark of the Covenant, do not count, because PEOPLE only bowed down to what GOD placed in the ARK, because IT CAME FROM GOD, written by GOD.

View attachment 216176

By the same token, that would make multiple statues of Mary, Graven Images, because in the Catholic Church, they are Made to bow down to them.

I should have shown the model of the Ark of the Covenant, because some may not have seen it:

 

[BillG]

Sadly, in a work from home status I am drinking more than usual My hyper status is on overdrive at points during the day..lol

Same here. I would usually have a coffee at lunchtime and most times a decaffeinated one.

I have been working from home now for 7 weeks. Basically I am running the company and working desperately hard to save the business and the jobs of 27 people.

The MD is furlooghed along with the chairman (who owns the business). We have the four mangers working but they don't quite understand what I'm doing even though I have explained what they should be doing in keeping me in the loop.

As you can imagine a company that sells bepsoke your holidays to the USA this lockdown has hit us hard and also those whose business has been affected.

I have been working 7 weeks from and 7 days of the week and not sleeping.
So when I get up I'm having a cup of coffee (a proper coffee) then another one and one in the afternoon.

I reckon the company I'm trying to save has about 6 months left unless things change.
It does not help when suppliers we have paid will not refund us for clients who have cancelled and who we have had to refund due to EU law.

So my caffeine intake has gone up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same here. I would usually have a coffee at lunchtime and most times a decaffeinated one.

I have been working from home now for 7 weeks. Basically I am running the company and working desperately hard to save the business and the jobs of 27 people.

The MD is furlooghed along with the chairman (who owns the business). We have the four mangers working but they don't quite understand what I'm doing even though I have explained what they should be doing in keeping me in the loop.

As you can imagine a company that sells bepsoke your holidays to the USA this lockdown has hit us hard and also those whose business has been affected.

I have been working 7 weeks from and 7 days of the week and not sleeping.
So when I get up I'm having a cup of coffee (a proper coffee) then another one and one in the afternoon.

I reckon the company I'm trying to save has about 6 months left unless things change.
It does not help when suppliers we have paid will not refund us for clients who have cancelled and who we have had to refund due to EU law.

So my caffeine intake has gone up.

I hear ya brother

I too am trying to keep guys employed by making sure they have work.

 

[BillG]

It's implied, as he was given instructions for the proper form of ordained sacrifices just like Abel (and almost certainly others as well), yet did not follow them. When God graciously attempted to correct him (giving him an opportunity for repentance).......well you know the rest of the story.

The point is that Cain was engaging in worship, not in faith, but by his own form, efforts and works.

How was this implied?

I get and agree with your point concerning God trying to correct him.

But what we do know is Cain was a farmer and Abel a shepherd yet ones offering was rejected.

If implied that Cain was given instructions then did he not follow them why?

Cain was the first human born and Abel the first human killed.

Any thoughts on the implications you mention?

 

[EleventhHour]

To any:
If you are a true blood bought full gospel believing person of faith and obedience,my ♥️ to you.
Followers of men my sympthanies😟

LordsHandMaiden aka LeastAmongMany always spoke about following men... towards me and others .... have you reinvented yourself again?

Let's see where honesty resides?

 

[dcontroversal]

In your Freegrace doctrine, why is God's grace/faith so powerful in salvation (and it is) but falls flat on it's face in bringing people to maturity and keeping them believing, since you say they're not the one's maintaining their believing?

Everything past your "but" is your own accusatory assumption....I will gladly wait for you to pull up a quote by me saying or indicating such a frivolous accusation..........this is one more example why you consistently prove that you are a fraud....you have no actual biblical ground to stand on which most with eyes can see so you resort to false accusations......what a joke!

 

[dcontroversal]

Did you put them there?
We All die,silly person.
I don't care WHO YOU think you are!

You just gave away who you are....same phraseology and same evil attitude....! Welcome back.....won't be long and you will throw another temper tantrum because no one buys your drivel and or fraudulent xianity....!

 

[dcontroversal]

LordsHandMaiden aka LeastAmongMany always spoke about following men... towards me and others .... have you reinvented yourself again?

Let's see where honesty resides?

Yep.....she just gave it away by what she said to me.....I just seen a snake in the grass in my yard!! Must be the HEAT!

 

[EleventhHour]

Yep.....she just gave it away by what she said to me.....I just seen a snake in the grass in my yard!! Must be the HEAT!

Yes she did.