IT'S 1948! IT'S A MIRACLE!

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Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#321
Oct 31, 2019
1,605
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113
#321
essokahill said:
Butterfly, I may not have fully gotten the context/background of your response, I found the notion of giving us troubling because it seems to evoke a sense of tribal or spiritual superiority which I suppose is not the case . While I understand that God chose the Israelites( Jews) in the OT to be the vehicle of blessings to the rest of the world, it was not a tribal favour against the rest as in giving us the Bible and Saviour. Christ came as a response to satisfy the righteous demands of God the Father by paying the penalty of death that consequent upon adam and Eve disobeying God. We are commanded to love everybody as you rightly said bearing in mind that it is only through the shed blood of Christ that any, even the unbelieving Jews can be saved. Find below an attachment of someone who dealt briefly on that subject.
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/470676
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Hi
Well we must consider Romans 1:16. Also we Gentile background believers have been grafted into the original olive tree ( Messianic Jews).
It is also God's prerogative if He chose a particular nation to establish His plan for the world and humanity through.
Anti-semitism is growing, and sadly Reformed Theology is Anti-semitism within the Church. God sees that and it is not okay with Him. Judgement starts at the house of God. Also it is His will that Zion/Israel be literally established. No other nation is like this, and that is how God made it to be.
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#322
Oct 31, 2019
1,605
1,317
113
#322
essokahill said:
Butterfly, I may not have fully gotten the context/background of your response, I found the notion of giving us troubling because it seems to evoke a sense of tribal or spiritual superiority which I suppose is not the case . While I understand that God chose the Israelites( Jews) in the OT to be the vehicle of blessings to the rest of the world, it was not a tribal favour against the rest as in giving us the Bible and Saviour. Christ came as a response to satisfy the righteous demands of God the Father by paying the penalty of death that consequent upon adam and Eve disobeying God. We are commanded to love everybody as you rightly said bearing in mind that it is only through the shed blood of Christ that any, even the unbelieving Jews can be saved. Find below an attachment of someone who dealt briefly on that subject.
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/470676
Click to expand...
Also God said to Abraham He would bless those who bless him and curse those who curse him. God made covenants with Abraham's people which He did not make with any other people, and God does not break or forget His Word.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#323
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#323
cv5 said:
They exist because God is preserving them for future redemption according to prophecy for the glory of His Name and their good. Bottom line God keeps his promises.
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Paul used himself as an example of an excommunicated Israelite grafted back in through faith in Christ. And this has been happening all along. The problem is when people think there will be a national conversion of the Jews. Many scriptures contradict this. Paul says they remain under God's wrath until the end of the world. Technically, they are the gentiles trodding Jerusalem underfoot until the last gentile is converted, which happens at the end of the world.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#324
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#324
Dave-L said:
Paul used himself as an example of an excommunicated Israelite grafted back in through faith in Christ. And this has been happening all along. The problem is when people think there will be a national conversion of the Jews. Many scriptures contradict this. Paul says they remain under God's wrath until the end of the world. Technically, they are the gentiles trodding Jerusalem underfoot until the last gentile is converted, which happens at the end of the world.
Click to expand...
Have you ever considered that Revelation 11:2 is talking about heavenly Jerusalem rather than the whore earthly Jerusalem? I can't image God considering the God forsaken earthly Jerusalem to be the holy city. I mean think about, we the gentiles, are walking the streets of heavenly Jerusalem right now. Just a thought, what do you think?

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#325
Nov 20, 2018
22,553
8,106
113
#325
Dave-L said:
Paul used himself as an example of an excommunicated Israelite grafted back in through faith in Christ. And this has been happening all along. The problem is when people think there will be a national conversion of the Jews. Many scriptures contradict this. Paul says they remain under God's wrath until the end of the world. Technically, they are the gentiles trodding Jerusalem underfoot until the last gentile is converted, which happens at the end of the world.
Click to expand...
Israelites are never ever "technically gentiles" buddy.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#326
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#326
cv5 said:
Israelites are never ever "technically gentiles" buddy.
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They are born gentiles until circumcised on the 8th day. If not, they remain gentiles.
 
essokahill

essokahill

Junior Member
#327
Jan 20, 2004
25
7
3
#327
Butterflyyy said:
Also God said to Abraham He would bless those who bless him and curse those who curse him. God made covenants with Abraham's people which He did not make with any other people, and God does not break or forget His Word.
Click to expand...
Yes. Actually, that old Testament promise is fulfilled in the NT in the following scriptures (Galatians)3:29 "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise" 2) Acts 3:25-26 "It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed, all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways".
What I am emphasizing, in essence, is that God is not committed to acting on that promise presently to unbelieving Jews but rather to Christians as the scriptures above illuminate.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#328
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#328
essokahill said:
Yes. Actually, that old Testament promise is fulfilled in the NT in the following scriptures (Galatians)3:29 "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise" 2) Acts 3:25-26 "It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed, all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways".
What I am emphasizing, in essence, is that God is not committed to acting on that promise presently to unbelieving Jews but rather to Christians as the scriptures above illuminate.
Click to expand...
I would also add that the promise is for believing Jews to.
 
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