Will the mark alone send a person to eternal damnation?

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KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#1
Nov 23, 2013
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#1
According to verse 9 it will not.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 
Ninety-Nine

Ninety-Nine

New member
#2
Apr 14, 2020
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#2
Is it saying that some will receive the mark and not worship the beast? And in that case they can escape eternal damnation? I understood the mark as a form of worship so I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this--not that I've ever studied it in depth so my understanding can be wrong.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#3
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#3
Ninety-Nine said:
Is it saying that some will receive the mark and not worship the beast? And in that case they can escape eternal damnation? I understood the mark as a form of worship so I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this--not that I've ever studied it in depth so my understanding can be wrong.
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Yes you are right. It’s saying that anyone who worships the beast AND worships the beasts image AND receives his mark in their forehead or hand. In other words an unsaved person.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

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#4
Jan 17, 2020
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#4
All of the Reformers and some post Reformation churches claim in their creeds the Papacy is the Antichrist. It's quite extensive the numbers of them that do. So I'm looking at what they saw as the mark. It's obvious they saw the forced worship as part of it. And the Catholic States as a hindrance to surviving for not taking the Mark. In Chapter 14 having God's name written in the forehead helps identify the Mark as a form of allegiance.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#5
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#5
This is another dispensationalist heresy that has spread across most of the church. The mark of the mark of the beast can only be understood by counting the number 666.
The mark isn’t a physical mark, it isn’t even a literal mark, it is a CHARACTERISTIC.

Example: What is the mark of a good Christian? Well many things. Love, joy, peace, long suffering etc. All of those are marks of a true Christian.
 
Ninety-Nine

Ninety-Nine

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#6
Apr 14, 2020
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#6
There is a series of studies on the web where the author says:
you revere/worship = mark on your forehead
you obey his commands = mark on your right hand
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#7
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#7
Dave-L said:
All of the Reformers and some post Reformation churches claim in their creeds the Papacy is the Antichrist. It's quite extensive the numbers of them that do. So I'm looking at what they saw as the mark. It's obvious they saw the forced worship as part of it. And the Catholic States as a hindrance to surviving for not taking the Mark. In Chapter 14 having God's name written in the forehead helps identify the Mark as a form of allegiance.
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Eze 3:9 (KJV) As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.

The forehead represents our ways of thinking, just like stiff necked represents unyielding will.

You can identify a person that has the mark of the beast by the way he thinks. Notice I said a person who HAS the mark.... the mark of the beast isn’t in the future it’s been around forever.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#8
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#8
Ninety-Nine said:
There is a series of studies on the web where the author says:
you revere/worship = mark on your forehead
you obey his commands = mark on your right hand
Click to expand...
I agree pretty much with that except I believe the forehead represents a way of thinking rather than worship.
 
Ninety-Nine

Ninety-Nine

New member
#9
Apr 14, 2020
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#9
Then this brings to mind Revelation 13:7 And no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark...

I wonder if buy and sell are symbolic and not literal in their meaning.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#10
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#10
Ninety-Nine said:
Then this brings to mind Revelation 13:7 And no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark...

I wonder if buy and sell are symbolic and not literal in their meaning.
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No it’s literal but it has to do with making merchandise of the word of God or another example would be paying someone out of purgatory as the Catholics teach.

I don’t have the mark of the beast and I would never purchase a Hal Linsey prophecy book or a Chuck Missler audio teaching or another thing the harlot church sells.

You have to remember that harlots will love you but you have to pay for that love. Not me, not any more.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#12
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
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#12
KJV1611 said:
This is another dispensationalist heresy that has spread across most of the church. The mark of the mark of the beast can only be understood by counting the number 666.
The mark isn’t a physical mark, it isn’t even a literal mark, it is a CHARACTERISTIC.

Example: What is the mark of a good Christian? Well many things. Love, joy, peace, long suffering etc. All of those are marks of a true Christian.
Click to expand...
I don't quite understand. If the mark is a number, then how can it be a characteristic? :unsure:
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#14
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
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#14
KJV1611 said:
According to verse 9 it will not.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Click to expand...
So go ahead and take the mark and find out for yourself.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#15
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
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#15
KJV1611 said:
According to verse 9 it will not.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Click to expand...
I just see it as a all in one package. If your worshiping something then getting the mark probably has no issues if what they worship calls for it.

As for eternal damnation the language around getting the mark doesn't sound pleasant and if your right then either way it is dangerously walking on a very thin ledge.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#16
Feb 21, 2014
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#16
azamzimtoti said:
Are ya saying things don't add up?
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Well, I dunno.. lol

The bible says the mark of the beast is a number: 666. But I don't quite get how that translates into being a characteristic.

I'm not saying KJV1611 is right or wrong, I'm just saying I don't quite get it. :)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#17
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#17
blue_ladybug said:
I don't quite understand. If the mark is a number, then how can it be a characteristic? :unsure:
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Count the number 666 and you’ll see. There is only one way to count a number, count the number of ones, count the number of tens and count the number of hundreds.

There are a couple of ways to do that but one of those counts should stick out like a sore thumb and that’s the one that identifies the mark of the beast.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#18
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
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#18
KJV1611 said:
No it’s literal but it has to do with making merchandise of the word of God or another example would be paying someone out of purgatory as the Catholics teach.

I don’t have the mark of the beast and I would never purchase a Hal Linsey prophecy book or a Chuck Missler audio teaching or another thing the harlot church sells.

You have to remember that harlots will love you but you have to pay for that love. Not me, not any more.
Click to expand...
It seems quite plausible and is resoundingly scriptural that all that those who are not anticipating the imminent return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for his bride the Church will in fact be those who miss the Rapture and go through the tribulation period.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#20
Feb 21, 2014
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#20
KJV1611 said:
Count the number 666 and you’ll see. There is only one way to count a number, count the number of ones, count the number of tens and count the number of hundreds.

There are a couple of ways to do that but one of those counts should stick out like a sore thumb and that’s the one that identifies the mark of the beast.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I still don't get it. And I never was good at math. :/
 
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