What is the bible?

[eternally-gratefull]

Very strange. I never said that the bible was not God's word.

Bit just fro grins, we have more bibles today than ever before, with more people who cam actually read than at any time in history, and the church is more divided than ever.

Our unity is not from the bible, nor is our faith. Our unity is from the Holy Spirit, as is our faith. It also is the gift of God.

If you don't believe that, then you don't even believe the bible itself.

Even the devil, when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness used scripture as a temptation. Jesus defeated the devil not with scripture alone, bit with the Holy Spirit's leading in the words of scripture. We can overcome in the same way, and only in the same way, that is, being lead in the use of scripture by the Holy Spirit.

Now, you can call me a heretic for this stance if you wish, and say that I am attacking the bible, but all I am really doing is attacking how we use, or rather misuse the bible.

Seems to me that I have more reverence for scripture than you, since I am unwilling to even use scripture without God's leading. I am not worthy.

Your words:

Those who elevate the bible above the voice of God are the enemies of the cross. His sheep hear His voice, unless they are not of His sheep.

to which I replied:

Those who claim the bible is NOT the voice of God has taken God and his word and made a mockery of them.

So which is it? Is scripture the words of God or is it not?

Yes people misinterpret Gods word, they do it to their own destruction as God says in his word. In fact it is prophesied the very thing you stated will happen. and you seem surprised by it?

Like I tell catholics who use this excuse, We are held accountable to how we interpret the word. But we are commanded to use the word to prove or test the spirits of those who claim to be from God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it's not the Word that's caused the divisions: it's the leaving off of studying it that brought this about.
and it was deliberate.
all we have to do is put aside the false doctrines and childishness and get back to devoting ourselves to The Lord, His Word and each other (minus the heretics)

I think it is more than this. I know alot of people that study the bible who have faulty doctrines. The problem is that they interpret Gods word to fit their belief and desires. And not to make their beliefs and desires fit Gods word.

Alot of people believe in God, the problem is they want to relate with God their way and not Gods way. Your "galations article" in another thread shows this. It is getting far worst today as we take what we consider "hateful and offensive) verses and doctrines out.

I believe this is what happened when rome took over the church. Imagine the backlash they would have gotten if they forced all these pagans to believe in Gods truth. (imagine the backlash in the US if our government forced all to believe one way and you can see what rome would have went against) so what did they do? They mixed pagan practices and tradition with Christian tradition and made it more appealing to the pagans being forced to turn to this new "christian" religion.

People are still doing this today. it is all about numbers. the more numbers I have the more money I have. It is no longer about God. it is about ME.

 

[VW]

Your words:


to which I replied:



So which is it? Is scripture the words of God or is it not?

Yes people misinterpret Gods word, they do it to their own destruction as God says in his word. In fact it is prophesied the very thing you stated will happen. and you seem surprised by it?

Like I tell catholics who use this excuse, We are held accountable to how we interpret the word. But we are commanded to use the word to prove or test the spirits of those who claim to be from God.

Words are such a bother. Words, voice, which is it?

I know that the bible is inspired by God. I believe Thai with all of my heart. I treasure the bible as a wonderful gift from our God.

On the other hand, I will not elevate the bible to the stature of God.

So, is the bible God's voice; no.

Is the bible made up of God's words. Yes.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Words are such a bother. Words, voice, which is it?

I know that the bible is inspired by God. I believe Thai with all of my heart. I treasure the bible as a wonderful gift from our God.

On the other hand, I will not elevate the bible to the stature of God.

So, is the bible God's voice; no.

Is the bible made up of God's words. Yes.

Then we have a major disagreement. If the Bible is inspired by God, it contains the words God wanted to tell is. which means it is the voice of God. In fact it is the only "voice" of God we can know came from God.

People say they hear from God all the time. How can we tell it is actually God talking to us and not satan talking to us and saying he is God? Through Gods voice called the scripture.

I had a lady tell me God was telling her to leave her husband and marry another man. She was serious and upset when I said this could not be God talking. I knew this Because gods word (the bible) states he hates divorce. and remarriage is adultry.

If we do not declare scripture to be the voice of God. we could easily say, oh that was Paul's words, not Gods, and justify to ourselves God is telling us to sin, and go against his own commands.

Again, you have the right to believe the way you do. I just think this is a dangerous belief!.

 

[VW]

Then we have a major disagreement. If the Bible is inspired by God, it contains the words God wanted to tell is. which means it is the voice of God. In fact it is the only "voice" of God we can know came from God.

People say they hear from God all the time. How can we tell it is actually God talking to us and not satan talking to us and saying he is God? Through Gods voice called the scripture.

I had a lady tell me God was telling her to leave her husband and marry another man. She was serious and upset when I said this could not be God talking. I knew this Because gods word (the bible) states he hates divorce. and remarriage is adultry.

If we do not declare scripture to be the voice of God. we could easily say, oh that was Paul's words, not Gods, and justify to ourselves God is telling us to sin, and go against his own commands.

Again, you have the right to believe the way you do. I just think this is a dangerous belief!.

Well, of course there are mistakes, but if all we have for contact with God is the bible, then we are in real trouble. Actually, we are missing a large portion of His grace.

There is always a negative example of something good of God's. There is always a counterfeit. These never negate the true gift from God.

Jesus said that His sheep would hear His voice, and that if they could not hear, they were not His sheep. I can learn only so much, come to know Jesus only so well, from the bible. But if I enter into His presence, if I do as the Spirit teaches me, and live in Him, and if I do again as scripture says, and enter into the holy place with the living God, then I will grow to know Them much more.

So, you also have the right to believe the way you do, but I believe it is lacking in so much that God provided for us in Christ when He sent His Spirit into the world.

If the same Spirit resides in me that inspired the scriptures, it seems reasonable that He could become God's voice for us. And it seems that this too is supported by scripture.

What worries me about the opposite stance is that it is very close to the sin of the children of Israel when they were in the wilderness at the holy mountain, and God made a covenant with them. They said to Moses that it was okay for Moses to talk to them, but they did not want God to talk to them. God was very angry with those people.

Anyway, I hope that I have not offended you again, and I am sorry for doing so yesterday.

In Christ,
vic

 

[Red33]

Words are such a bother. Words, voice, which is it?

I know that the bible is inspired by God. I believe Thai with all of my heart. I treasure the bible as a wonderful gift from our God.

On the other hand, I will not elevate the bible to the stature of God.

So, is the bible God's voice; no.

Is the bible made up of God's words. Yes.

What other voice do we have from God that is inspired and put in written form that reveals the living God? Do we not see Him in the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation? Do we not see Him and how He deals with man throughout the ages? Do we not see the prophesies given to the prophets come to past and be fulfilled? Do we not learn from the scriptures how we are to conduct our lives within and without the church? Are we not given a glimpse into the future and what to expect as believers in the church and body of Christ? Are we not given the gospel of Christ that we are to preach in all the world? We have also learned from the written word that when we believe upon Christ that God imputes His righteousness unto us, gives us the gift of eternal life and the promise of the Spirit and some (65) precious things are imputed to the believer's account in heaven in an instant by grace, with no works on our part.

Is the Bible God's voice, YES!

Is the Bible made up of God's word, NO!, the Bible IS God's word and it is eternal, it is complete, nothing can be added to it and will never pass away (Mt 24:35). Either you believe that as a believer or you don't and live in unbelief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, of course there are mistakes, but if all we have for contact with God is the bible, then we are in real trouble. Actually, we are missing a large portion of His grace.

There is always a negative example of something good of God's. There is always a counterfeit. These never negate the true gift from God.

Jesus said that His sheep would hear His voice, and that if they could not hear, they were not His sheep. I can learn only so much, come to know Jesus only so well, from the bible. But if I enter into His presence, if I do as the Spirit teaches me, and live in Him, and if I do again as scripture says, and enter into the holy place with the living God, then I will grow to know Them much more.

So, you also have the right to believe the way you do, but I believe it is lacking in so much that God provided for us in Christ when He sent His Spirit into the world.

If the same Spirit resides in me that inspired the scriptures, it seems reasonable that He could become God's voice for us. And it seems that this too is supported by scripture.

What worries me about the opposite stance is that it is very close to the sin of the children of Israel when they were in the wilderness at the holy mountain, and God made a covenant with them. They said to Moses that it was okay for Moses to talk to them, but they did not want God to talk to them. God was very angry with those people.

Anyway, I hope that I have not offended you again, and I am sorry for doing so yesterday.

In Christ,
vic

Like I tell Catholics and others who go outside of Gods word to form their doctrines. If God wanted us to know something, he would have placed that in his word. He would not have left his word incomplete. It is when people state they hear from God, yet what they hear can not be either proven or unproven by Gods word that we need to be careful of. Scripture states satan comes as an angel of light to decieve even the elect.

I hear from God all the time. I also hear from satan. If I did not take what I hear and look at Gods word to make sure it does not counter the living word he gave me. I am in danger of listening to satan thinking it is God. There are some things which can not be proven with the word. Like when I feel he is telling me personally to go here or do this or that. In this case I consult more mature Christians and get their thoughts on the matter. What I never do is think that just because I hear a voice, assume it is God talking.

You did not offend me. Just try to understand what I am saying. To many people assume things because they think they have heard it before. or are spoon fed to fight others who disagree with them, so they automatically assume they know what the other believes. Yet if they took the time to read, they would see they are wrong in their assumptions.

 

[VW]

What other voice do we have from God that is inspired and put in written form that reveals the living God? Do we not see Him in the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation? Do we not see Him and how He deals with man throughout the ages? Do we not see the prophesies given to the prophets come to past and be fulfilled? Do we not learn from the scriptures how we are to conduct our lives within and without the church? Are we not given a glimpse into the future and what to expect as believers in the church and body of Christ? Are we not given the gospel of Christ that we are to preach in all the world? We have also learned from the written word that when we believe upon Christ that God imputes His righteousness unto us, gives us the gift of eternal life and the promise of the Spirit and some (65) precious things are imputed to the believer's account in heaven in an instant by grace, with no works on our part.

Is the Bible God's voice, YES!

Is the Bible made up of God's word, NO!, the Bible IS God's word and it is eternal, it is complete, nothing can be added to it and will never pass away (Mt 24:35). Either you believe that as a believer or you don't and live in unbelief.

Why do you pass judgment on me?

What sin have I committed against you?

If I have sinned, it is against God, and Him alone.

We have God living in us, or we are not His. Do you believe this?

And as the Spirit teaches us, we are to abide in Jesus. That is it, that is all that the Spirit teaches us. Anything else is from man, not God. We are to live and breath and eat and sleep and walk and run and love and everything we do, in Christ Jesus. And the bible is not Him. It is from Him, but in no way can you equate the bible to Jesus.

And why are we to live in Jesus? So that when He appears, we will not shrink away from Him in shame!

Think and meditate on this, very hard.

 

[VW]

Like I tell Catholics and others who go outside of Gods word to form their doctrines. If God wanted us to know something, he would have placed that in his word. He would not have left his word incomplete. It is when people state they hear from God, yet what they hear can not be either proven or unproven by Gods word that we need to be careful of. Scripture states satan comes as an angel of light to decieve even the elect.

I hear from God all the time. I also hear from satan. If I did not take what I hear and look at Gods word to make sure it does not counter the living word he gave me. I am in danger of listening to satan thinking it is God. There are some things which can not be proven with the word. Like when I feel he is telling me personally to go here or do this or that. In this case I consult more mature Christians and get their thoughts on the matter. What I never do is think that just because I hear a voice, assume it is God talking.

You did not offend me. Just try to understand what I am saying. To many people assume things because they think they have heard it before. or are spoon fed to fight others who disagree with them, so they automatically assume they know what the other believes. Yet if they took the time to read, they would see they are wrong in their assumptions.

But don't you think, rather believe, that as we come to know Him better, and His voice, that we can come to recognize Him, and His voice? I hear Him all the time, and most of the time it is in scripture, and many times He opens up scripture in ways that I never dreamed possible. At first, I was afraid, and did not know for sure that it was Jesus talking to me. One day He told me to speak to a woman at work. I told her that if she did not stop living with the man she was living with, that she would die. She was startled greatly by this, and at first was offended. But then she said that she did not know how to get away from this man, as he was very abusive and controlling. God gave me wisdom to answer, saying, "Just give it to God, and determine to take a chance on Him, and He will change your situation." Two days later this man was transferred to another state far away. My sister is still alive, and still loves Jesus with all of her heart. She had before this had 20+ operations, but the doctors could not find what was killing her.

This is just one of many examples. If we do not practice hearing, how will we hear when it is needed? We are all frail and weak and afraid of speaking wrong or hearing wrong. But I always remember that Abraham was counted righteous because He believed what God told him. He believed against the evidence.

In Christ

 

[Red33]

Why do you pass judgment on me?

What sin have I committed against you?

If I have sinned, it is against God, and Him alone.

We have God living in us, or we are not His. Do you believe this?

And as the Spirit teaches us, we are to abide in Jesus. That is it, that is all that the Spirit teaches us. Anything else is from man, not God. We are to live and breath and eat and sleep and walk and run and love and everything we do, in Christ Jesus. And the bible is not Him. It is from Him, but in no way can you equate the bible to Jesus.

And why are we to live in Jesus? So that when He appears, we will not shrink away from Him in shame!

Think and meditate on this, very hard.

My post is a rebuttal and nothing more. No one mentioned anything about sin.

 

[VW]

My post is a rebuttal and nothing more. No one mentioned anything about sin.

You did not make a rebuttal, you just made statements which you then went on to say that if I did not believe them I was in unbelief.

If I don't believe in the way you say, then I am in unbelief, and if it is not by and in faith, then it is sin.

 

[Red33]

You did not make a rebuttal, you just made statements which you then went on to say that if I did not believe them I was in unbelief.

If I don't believe in the way you say, then I am in unbelief, and if it is not by and in faith, then it is sin.

If that is how you believe, nothing more can be said.

 

[zone]

Well you are half right. We, that is, Christians, caused the divisions. When has mankind ever
Put his hand on anything without making a mess of it.

And truthfully, we need to grow up and realize that devotion to scripture is not devotion to God.

What heretics? Oh, you mean those who believe in a spiritual relationship with God.
Guess you better count me in that group. Seems that I claim to know God, to talk to Him just as He talks to me.

you claim Jesus speaks directly through you.
i was sorry to see it happen.

 

[zone]

Because your line of thinking that the Bible is not held equal to Gods word is a dangerous view. and would allow people to believe anything they want, And anyone to say they heard from God and make a prophetic announcement saying ti was from God with no scripture to prove it was not from God. and what the church would have would be utter chaos worst than we have today.

so true.
it's astonishing this even needs to be articulated.

the chaos is just getting started.

 

[zone]

I believe this is what happened when rome took over the church.

Rome never took over the church.
Rome was hijacked herself...almost immediately.

Dominionism by any religious group is a sure sign of a fake.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so true.
it's astonishing this even needs to be articulated.

the chaos is just getting started.

Yeah I thought so myself.

And yes. We are in the last days

 

[aworldexport67]

But you sir, have made the bible to be God Himself. May He forgive you, and I pray that the error of this not cause you to fall into deception too deeply.

You are dellutional i never said any such thing. It is Gods word. You never post any scripture because it doesnt back up anything you have said.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

That is the danger you are in. You are hang gliding into the winds of deception with no way to tell if what your hearing is from the word of God.

sorry but i reject everything you have to say because it is not in accordance with the Bible. But you dont seem to care so i reckon it is pointless to keep showing you over and over and over again in scripture. You want to be blown about by every wind of doctrine then go for it at your own peril.

Not once have you posted any scriptual backing for your beliefs. Its all about the voices in your head.Sad, very sad...

 

[VW]

so true.
it's astonishing this even needs to be articulated.

the chaos is just getting started.

The chaos has been going on for 2 thousand years.

And yes, it will get worse soon. But there will not be any safety for those who retreat from Christ, only for those who draw near to Him.

 

[VW]

But you sir, have made the bible to be God Himself. May He forgive you, and I pray that the error of this not cause you to fall into deception too deeply.

You are dellutional i never said any such thing. It is Gods word. You never post any scripture because it doesnt back up anything you have said.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

That is the danger you are in. You are hang gliding into the winds of deception with no way to tell if what your hearing is from the word of God.

sorry but i reject everything you have to say because it is not in accordance with the Bible. But you dont seem to care so i reckon it is pointless to keep showing you over and over and over again in scripture. You want to be blown about by every wind of doctrine then go for it at your own peril.

Not once have you posted any scriptual backing for your beliefs. Its all about the voices in your head.Sad, very sad...

I don't post scripture in quotes as you do, but if you know His word, you would see that scripture is all throughout my posts, almost everywhere.

Obviously, you have decided what you believe already, and no amount of scripture would make any difference.

Not voices in my head, One voice in my heart, the voice of the Holy Spirit. He teaches me to abide, to live in Jesus, so that when He appears, I will not be afraid and shrink away from Him in shame.

Oh, wait a minute, seems that is scripture!

 

[VW]

But you sir, have made the bible to be God Himself. May He forgive you, and I pray that the error of this not cause you to fall into deception too deeply.

You are dellutional i never said any such thing. It is Gods word. You never post any scripture because it doesnt back up anything you have said.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

That is the danger you are in. You are hang gliding into the winds of deception with no way to tell if what your hearing is from the word of God.

sorry but i reject everything you have to say because it is not in accordance with the Bible. But you dont seem to care so i reckon it is pointless to keep showing you over and over and over again in scripture. You want to be blown about by every wind of doctrine then go for it at your own peril.

Not once have you posted any scriptual backing for your beliefs. Its all about the voices in your head.Sad, very sad...

I have to add that what is so very sad to me is a believer who cannot come to know Jesus personally, who because of prejiduce and unbelief is unwilling to have His voice in their heart.

How will one come to know the Lord, by reading letters.

Well, Jesus loves us, and He has not left us as orphans, but He has come to us and will be with us and in us. Oh, wait a minute, scripture again! I better stop, before I actually write chapter and verse so you know where it is.

When I hear His voice it is just like that, in scripture, or concerning scripture. And most often it is to convict me of my unbelief in Him, and of my walking in my self and my own strength and not in Him and His strength. Most of all, when I am not walking in His love, which is the fruit of the Spirit. Oh, wait..........you get the idea.

In Christ and in His love,