Not By Works

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Apr 3, 2019
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I know one thing for sure, it is not about anyone loosing their salvation.
The context is provided by Jesus:

(Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.)

(Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh)

In the same vein:

(Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.)

(Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.)
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
And by the way when I mentioned oil I was speaking in context of the OT priest during his ritual anointing where he was anointed with oil. A representative of the HS.

Not virgins and lamps. So not sure where that come from
I understand.. the parable came up with @GandalfTheWhite so I am trying to be consistent in that salvation cannot be lost, so the parable cannot be used to support that view.

But thanks helpful to know what you stated.:)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Apparently, he is using the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to tell her, "go and just sin a little bit." I don't believe that Jesus truly expected the woman to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time after that and those who believe they live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10) :cautious:
Yes Jesus did not expect her to be sinless.
If he did along with those he met whilst on the earth then he would have no need to die. He would have just said "Stop sinning full stop and you will be ok"

I think this whole scenario is twofold.
Those who bought this woman were trying to trap Jesus and in fact under the law Jesus could not condemn her as there were no witnesses or accusers that would step forward and say they caught her in the act.

So Jesus could not condemn her but he turned it round and used it against the Pharisees and the scribes.

John 8:7-12
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

We see "Any you sinless?

What a question to ask, how could anyone say yes? They cannot.
The accusers have gone and can no longer condemn her.
That's why Jesus could not condemn her because under the law two witnesses were needed from sentance to be passed.

I believe Jesus knew she was guilty and as God could have pronounced that.

Yet he says lovingly "I don't codemn you, now go live differently"
He didn't say "Until you stop sinning you are condemned"

Go now live differently?

12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

I reckon this woman having been spared death and meeting Jesus would have seen the light of the world and want to walk in the light and not the darkness.

Sinless "NO"
Wanting to sin less "YES"
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I see no contradiction.
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Someone who has broken God's covenant and cut off from his people, is still righteous in God's sight according to you?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Someone who has broken God's covenant and cut off from his people, is still righteous in God's sight according to you?
Are you stating that circumcision saved?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I am just stating what Genesis 17:14 is literally saying.
You did not answer the question, however, if you believe that this verse indicates that salvation can be lost not not being circumcised ......then on the flip side salvation must be gained by circumcision.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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You did not answer the question, however, if you believe that this verse indicates that salvation can be lost not not being circumcised ......then on the flip side salvation must be gained by circumcision.
Okay fair comment, here is my answer: I believe circumcision was a necessary condition for the Jews during the OT to be saved, but not sufficient.

If an OT Jew don't obey what God said, to be circumcised, he is not showing his faith to God.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Okay fair comment, here is my answer: I believe circumcision was a necessary condition for the Jews during the OT to be saved, but not sufficient.

If an OT Jew don't obey what God said, to be circumcised, he is not showing his faith to God.
So then are you stating the Jews were justified by keeping the law?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So then are you stating the Jews were justified by keeping the law?
Now you know why I ignore the Gong Show 98% of the time.....circular reasoning and zero honesty or scriptural integrity.....funny how they all peddle Law Keeping to be right with God when......

a. There shall NO FLESH be justified in his sight by the law, for by the LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN....it was never designed to make one righteous before God <--this is what they deny or wilfully reject...

b. The law came by MOSES SO which LAW made Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Noah etc....righteous?

See HEBREWS 11....FAITH <--that is what made them righteous before God!!!!!
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#1 is the most dishonest thing I have seen you say....it is false and you should hang your head in shame for not only misrepresenting the truth, but also for joining hand in hand with the liars and deceivers that peddle that crap in defense of their false, idiotic working, for self saving dogma!
DC I am trying my best to interact with people in a gentle manner when I reply to them on this thread because people are sensitive when it comes to “work and grace”. When you get to the foot of the cross you will change because it is Biblical. You cannot stay the same person you were before you met Christ. Believe me if I was, I would have told you off in no uncertain terms long ago. Before I really met my Saviour I was an unpleasant person and even today need to remind myself “that is not the Christian way” to deal with things. So yeah, the person in front of you definitely needed grace, but also had to change because I couldn’t stay the same person and tell people I am a Christian. If that is your belief you are wrong and then I can also understand why some people are acting the way they do on this thread and forum.

I would really like you to tell me where I ever said I can save myself with works? If you can we can chat about it.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Now you know why I ignore the Gong Show 98% of the time.....circular reasoning and zero honesty or scriptural integrity.....funny how they all peddle Law Keeping to be right with God when......

a. There shall NO FLESH be justified in his sight by the law, for by the LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN....it was never designed to make one righteous before God <--this is what they deny or wilfully reject...

b. The law came by MOSES SO which LAW made Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Noah etc....righteous?

See HEBREWS 11....FAITH <--that is what made them righteous before God!!!!!
You are ignoring what Genesis 17:14 literally says.