Not By Works

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Jan 25, 2015
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I continued ... :D

Do you remember this assertion?

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4255150

Like I said find where God states he will take away salvation from a saved person. It is not about "leaving" it is about "undoing" and that requires God's work and He promises a secure salvation, which is the Gospel, it is secure because it is based on His perfect work.

Your view basically states that our "fallenness" can out do God's grace ....well, IT cannot... because of the New Adam.

So you sir, if your were intellectually honest would see a glaring contradiction.

As well, our position on works is this not what you posted, but that works/change will pour out of a believer based on relationship not performance.

Do you believe in the Trinity?

How many times do we find the word trinity in the Bible, or is it something we have to conclude and understand from what is written in the Bible?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Do you believe in the Trinity?

How many times do we find the word trinity in the Bible, or is it something we have to conclude and understand from what is written in the Bible?
The doctrine is seen in scripture apart from the label.... the concept of "salvation can be forfeited" cannot be seen in scripture and also has no label.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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The doctrine is seen in scripture apart from the label.... the concept of "salvation can be forfeited" cannot be seen in scripture and also has no label.
We can turn away from God if we so choose and He will give us a bill of divorce :) that in my understanding is losing my salvation. Maybe you understand it differently.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
We can turn away from God if we so choose and He will give us a bill of divorce :) that in my understanding is losing my salvation. Maybe you understand it differently.
Then I have several questions.......

What if I change my mind and am open to mediation?

How many infractions of turning away before God seeks to divorce me?
Does that bill of divorce come through regular post or email?
Does it require my signature?
What is I refuse to sign, you know maybe I am having second thoughts, is it still legally binding?
Can we get remarried?

Am I allowed to have a lawyer before the Judge makes the final decree ... maybe Jesus can help me out ... what ya think?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We can turn away from God if we so choose and He will give us a bill of divorce :) that in my understanding is losing my salvation. Maybe you understand it differently.
what does God do that causes us to lose faith. Does he fail us?
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Then I have several questions.......

What if I change my mind and am open to mediation?

How many infractions of turning away before God seeks to divorce me?
Does that bill of divorce come through regular post or email?
Does it require my signature?
What is I refuse to sign, you know maybe I am having second thoughts, is it still legally binding?
Can we get remarried?

Am I allowed to have a lawyer before the Judge makes the final decree ... maybe Jesus can help me out ... what ya think?
We have the marriage contract (Bible) and you have the lawyer that died on the cross for you my dear sister.

The Torah forbid you to get married again to the same groom after you divorced him. Death is the only thing that can break the curse and Paul also mention it in his letters.

The blood has flown for you and me and we can get remarried to the Groom.

Jesus can always help you out, I know that :)
 
Jan 25, 2015
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what does God do that causes us to lose faith. Does he fail us?
My friend, why would I want to blame God when people lose faith?

God is perfect, if there is something wrong it is always us.

Maybe I don't understand your question in the light you are asking it...
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
We have the marriage contract (Bible) and you have the lawyer that died on the cross for you my dear sister.

The Torah forbid you to get married again to the same groom after you divorced him. Death is the only thing that can break the curse and Paul also mention it in his letters.

The blood has flown for you and me and we can get remarried to the Groom.

Jesus can always help you out, I know that :)
My point exactly. :)

No certificate of divorce.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1 John 2:1
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
It surprises me that an accusation out of left field like this actually panned out.
Not really out of left field... "individual alerts" give us a lot of insight into a person.
And those notifications have continued until just recently. ;)
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
We can turn away from God if we so choose and He will give us a bill of divorce :) that in my understanding is losing my salvation. Maybe you understand it differently.
See this "understand it differently" I am not diggin it .. to use an old expression.

You need to think on this "relativism" it really does not work with scripture.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
My friend, why would I want to blame God when people lose faith?

God is perfect, if there is something wrong it is always us.

Maybe I don't understand your question in the light you are asking it...
Because people only lose faith in others when the other person fails them

We do not just lose faith in people. We lose faith in people when they prove to be unfaithful. And most of the time, it takes many small lapses in trustworthiness, It does not just happen because they did something we did not like. Unless it is something major. Like adultery or they do something so horrific that trust can not be held onto it must be re-earned.

So if you are going to claim a person can lose faith in God. Well What did God do that caused them to lose faith?

Remember, if they TRULY repented and trusted God for salvation. They trusted him with their eternity, because they come to the end of themselves KNOWING how guilty and deserving of Gods judgment they were.

If they trust him in this, to me It would take an awful lot of failures By god to cause them to lose faith

UNLESS, they never truly had faith to begin with
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It surprises me that an accusation out of left field like this actually panned out.
lol, If that panned out it surprises me also. I did not know she had that many aliases!

Its funny how people think they can keep trying to bypass the system and think they will not get caught..
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
lol, If that panned out it surprises me also. I did not know she had that many aliases!

Its funny how people think they can keep trying to bypass the system and think they will not get caught..
When someone follows you around and laughs at your posts even up to last night ... you just know it is that same person.

I guess "harlots" are good at being funny too!! :D
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Do you believe in the Trinity?

How many times do we find the word trinity in the Bible, or is it something we have to conclude and understand from what is written in the Bible?

God told ADAM to Name the all the Animals. So we have been NAMING THINGS EVER SINCE.

Trinity describes HIS NATURE, and there are lots of things that were not named in the BIBLE and YET THEY EXIST.

BIBLE is not in SCRIPTURE, yet we know it exist.

BAPTISTERY is NOT in the BIBLE, yet we know it exist.

PEW is NOT in the BIBLE, yet we know it exist.

HYMN BOARD is NOT in the BIBLE, yet we know it exist.


CHOIR ROBES are NOT in the BIBLE, yet we know they exist.


COLLECTION PLATES are NOT in the BIBLE, yet we know they exist.

PIANO is NOT in the BIBLE, yet we know they exist.

I could go ON, and ON, and ON.

Just because we NAMED SOMETHING, that WASN'T NAMED in the BIBLE, does not mean it doesn't EXIST.

People with your Logic, their Logic is TOTALLY LAME.

THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS CONVINCED THE TRINITY EXISTS, IN MY HEART. AND SO HAS CHRIST, because I HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST IN ME {Last verse in 1 Cor. chapter 2}, because those things happen when you are TRULY Born Again.

Besides it says so in SCRIPTURE:

Isaiah 6:8 (NASB77)
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?"
Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Isaiah 43:10-12 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me. 🡸🡸 LUKE 2:11
12 I alone declared, saved, and proclaimed— and not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.

Colossians 2:8-10 (NASB77)
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
9 For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Acts 5:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field?
4 Wasn’t it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn’t it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God!”
5 When he heard these words, Ananias dropped dead, and a great fear came on all who heard.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (ESV)
16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19 (ESV)
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (ESV)
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Hebrews 10:22 (NCV)
22 let us come near to God with a sincere heart and a sure faith, because we have been made free from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

John 16:8 (HCSB)
8 When He comes, He will convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment:
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
Matthew 23:24 "24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. "

Perfect example of those on here spewing forth false doctrine about salvation. You know who you are. (hold onto, works, etc.)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Because people only lose faith in others when the other person fails them

We do not just lose faith in people. We lose faith in people when they prove to be unfaithful. And most of the time, it takes many small lapses in trustworthiness, It does not just happen because they did something we did not like. Unless it is something major. Like adultery or they do something so horrific that trust can not be held onto it must be re-earned.

So if you are going to claim a person can lose faith in God. Well What did God do that caused them to lose faith?

Remember, if they TRULY repented and trusted God for salvation. They trusted him with their eternity, because they come to the end of themselves KNOWING how guilty and deserving of Gods judgment they were.

If they trust him in this, to me It would take an awful lot of failures By god to cause them to lose faith

UNLESS, they never truly had faith to begin with
one has to proffer if they lose their faith as a result of God's failures then

1. They are not asking for the right things.
2. If they are asking for the right things they are asking for the wrong reasons.
3. If they are asking for the right things for the right reasons but it's not answered straight away then they walk away. Then maybe wrong reasons.

Not my will Lord but yours.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
one has to proffer if they lose their faith as a result of God's failures then

1. They are not asking for the right things.
2. If they are asking for the right things they are asking for the wrong reasons.
3. If they are asking for the right things for the right reasons but it's not answered straight away then they walk away. Then maybe wrong reasons.

Not my will Lord but yours.
And yet.....

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:13
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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And yet.....

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:13
If I'm totally honest I don't fully get that.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

V12 P2 messes with my head.

V13. Is faithless talking about immature believers?

If so I get this.

Yet V12 I can't get a handle on it. It's sandwiched between V11 & 13