THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Regardless of what habits you stop doing your mind is absolutely unchanged with reference to mathew 5:48 before God. Don't deceive yourself and others!!

Nope.

 

[Sudakar]

Hello @Sudakar, I'm not sure what happened with the formatting while I was rushing to meet the 5 minute editing deadline in post #214 above. Sorry about that.

The good news is, I believe that the entire quote is there, even if it looks a little "off" due to the formatting (you are, of course, welcome to see the entire quote at Dr. MacArthur's website. The link I left to it in the same post will take you right there ).

~Deut

Regardless of what habits you stop doing your mind is absolutely unchanged with reference to mathew 5:48 before God. Don't deceive yourself and others!!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I don't trust in my ceasing to sin to prove my saving faith. But you trust in in lowering the standard of lordship to suit your sinfulness and lust in order to prove falsely that you have saving faith. That's absurd and hypocrisy.

Nope. Grow up bruh. Grow up.

 

[Sudakar]

Works are not necessary for salvation. Works are not necessary for maintaining salvation. What LS avers is that works are an outpouring of salvation.



Non sequitur.

The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

One who trusts in works to prove he has saving faith isn't saved. So it's important.

And LS doesn’t teach that. Why not brush up on it before slandering it, K?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!

Nope. Again, grow up bruh. Grow up.

 

[Sudakar]

I agree somewhat, but what you are trying to do is unload metanoia.

The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!

Nope. You must really love lying, which, by the way, is a sin. So much for you adhering to Matthew 5:48.

 

[Sudakar]

I agree with the penance idea.



Persists where?

God doesn't allow penance for salvation because it amounts to self boasting which is pride according to Ephesians 2:9.

 

[Sudakar]

That’s not biblical repentance. Non sequitur.

Anyway you haven't repented according to mathew 5:48 but according to a standard which you invent subjectively. That's phoney lordship.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Anyway you haven't repented according to mathew 5:48 but according to a standard which you invent subjectively. That's phoney lordship.

Again, why persist in lying? What have you to gain by continually lying? So much for you and Matthew 5:48.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Anyway you haven't repented according to mathew 5:48 but according to a standard which you invent subjectively. That's phoney lordship.

So, I guess you’ve reached sinless perfection?

 

[Sudakar]

Yes.

That's meaningless because you think you have to prove your saving faith by your works! No difference. Its the same as works salvation.
The misery is you can't know you have saving faith till your last breath.

 

[Sudakar]

This is from the Scott- Liddel lexicon:

metanoevw fut. metanohvsw ; 1 aor. metenovhsa (Antipho +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ) change one’s mind Hv 3, 7, 3; m 11:4 ( cf. Diod. S. 15, 47, 3 metenovhsen oJ dh`mo" ; 17, 5, 1; Epict. 2, 22, 35; Appian , Hann. 35 §151, Mithrid. 58 §238; Stob. , Ecl. II 113, 5 ff W .; PSI 495, 9 [258

BC ]; Jos. , Vi. 110; 262), then feel remorse, repent, be converted (in religio-ethical sense: X. , Hell. 1, 7, 19 ouj metanohvsante" u{steron euJrhvsete sfa`" aujtou;" hJmarthkovta" ta; mevgista ej" qeouv" te kai; uJma`" aujtouv" ; Plut. , Camill. 29, 3, Ag. 19, 5, Galba 6, 4, Adulat. 36 p. 74 C ; M. Ant. 8, 2; 53; Ps.- Lucian , De Salt. 84 metanoh`sai ejfÆ oi|" ejpoivhsen ; Herm. Wr. 1, 28; Dit., Or. 751, 9 [II BC ] qewrw`n ou\n uJma`" metanenohkovta" te ejpi; toi`" prohmarthmevnoi", Syll. 3 1268 II, 8 [III BC ] aJmartw;n metanovei ; PSI 495, 9 [258/7 BC ]; BGU 747 I, 11; 1024 IV, 25; PTebt. 424, 5; Is 46:8 ; Jer 8:6 ; Sir 17:24 ; 48:15 ; oft. Test. 12 Patr. [ s. index]; Philo [ s. metavnoia ]; Jos. , Bell. 5, 415, Ant. 7, 153;
320) ejn savkkw/ kai; spodw`/ m. repent in sackcloth and ashes Mt 11:21 ; Lk 10:13 . As a prerequisite for attaining the Kgdm. of God in the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus Mt 3:2 ; 4:17 ; Mk 1:15 . As the subject of the disciples’ preaching 6:12 ; Ac 17:30 ; 26:20 . Failure to repent leads to destruction Lk 13:3 , 5 ; Mt 11:20 . Repentance saves ( cf. Phil o, Spec. Leg. 1, 239 oJ metanow`n swv/zetai ; 253) 12:41; Lk 11:32 ; cf. 15: 7, 10 ; 16:30 . m. eij" to; khvrugmav tino" repent at or because of someone’s preaching Mt 12:41 ; Lk 11:32 ( Bl-D. §207, 1; Rob. 593; s. eij" 6a). W. ejpiv tini to denote the reason repent of, because of someth. ( Charito 3, 3, 11; Ps.- Lucian , Salt. 84; M. Ant. 8, 2; 10; 53; Jo 2:13 ; Jon 3:10 ; 4:2 ; Am 7:3 , 6 ; Prayer of Manasseh [=Ode 12] 7; Philo , Virt. 180; Jos. , Ant. 7, 264; Test. Judah 15:4.— Bl-D. §235, 2) ejpi; th`/ ajkaqarsiva/ of their immorality 2 Cor 12:21 . ejpi; toi`" aJmarthvmasin of their sins 1 Cl 7:7. ejpiv w. subst. inf. foll. MPol 7:2. Also diav ti Hv 3, 7, 2. Since in m. the negative impulse of turning away is dominant, it is also used w. ajpov tino" : repent and turn away from someth. ajpo; th`" kakiva" (Jer 8:6 ) Ac 8:22 (MWilcox, The Semitisms of Ac, ’65, 102-5). ajpo; th`" ajnomiva" 1 Cl 8:3 ( quot. of unknown orig. ). Also e[k tino" Rv 2:21 b, 22 ; 9:20 f ; 16:11 . W. ejpistrevfein ejpi; to;n qeovn Ac 26:20 . m. eij" eJnovthta qeou` turn in repentance to the unity of God (which precludes all disunity) IPhld 8:1b; cf. ISm 9:1. But m. eij" to; pavqo" repent concerning the suffering (of Christ, which the Docetists deny) 5:3. W. inf. foll. Rv 16:9 . W. o{ti foll. repent because or that ( Jos. , Ant. 2,
315) Hm 10, 2, 3. W. adv. ajdistavktw" s 8, 10, 3. braduvteron s 8, 7, 3; 8, 8, 3b. puknw`" m 11:4. tacuv Hs 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 3a; 5b; 8, 10, 1; 9, 19, 2; 9, 21, 4; 9, 23, 2c. m. ejx o{lh" (th`") kardiva" repent
w. the whole heart 2 Cl 17:1; 19:1; Hv 1, 3, 2; 2, 2, 4; 3, 13, 4b; 4, 2, 5; m 5, 1, 7; 12, 6, 1; s 7:4; 8, 11, 3. m. ejx eijlikrinou`" kardiva" repent w. a sincere heart 2 Cl 9:8.—The word is found further, and used abs. ( Diod. S. 13, 53, 3; Epict. , Ench. 34; Oenomaus [time of Hadrian] in Euseb., Pr. Ev. 5, 19, 1; Philo , Mos. 2, 167 al. ; Jos. , Ant. 2, 322) Lk 17:3 f ; Ac 2:38 ; 3:19 ; Rv 2:5 a ( Vi. Aesopi I c. 85 metanovhson =take counsel with yourself), b, 16, 21; 3:3, 19; 2 Cl 8:1, 2, 3; 13:1; 15:1; 16:1; IPhld 3:2; 8:1a; ISm 4:1; Hv 1, 1, 9; 3, 3, 2; 3, 5, 5; 3, 13, 4a; 5:7; m 4, 1, 5; 7 ff ; 4, 2, 2; 4, 3, 6; 9:6; 10, 2, 4; 12, 3, 3; s 4:4; 6, 1, 3 f ; 6, 3, 6; 6, 5, 7; s 7:2; 4 f ; 8, 6, 1 ff ; 8, 7, 2 f ; 8, 8, 2; 5a; 8, 9, 2; 4; 8, 11, 1 f ; 9, 14, 1 f ; 9, 20, 4; 9, 22, 3 f ; 9, 23, 2; 5; 9, 26, 6; 8; D 10:6; 15:3; PK 3 p. 15, 11; 27.— S. also MPol 9:2; 11:1 f , in the sense repent from Christianity.—Windisch, Exc. on 2 Cor 7:10 p. 233 f ; Norden, Agn. Th. 134 ff ; AHDirksen, The NT Concept of Metanoia, Diss. Cath. Univ. of America, Washington, ’32; FPShipham, ET 46, ’35, 277-80; EKDietrich, D. Umkehr (Bekehrg. u. Busse) im AT u. im Judent. b. bes. Berücksichtigg. der ntl. Zeit ’36; HPohlmann, D. Metanoia ’38; OMichel, Ev. Theol. 5, ’38, 403-14; BPoschmann, Paenitentia secunda ’40, 1-205 (NT and Apost. Fathers); JBehm and EWürthwein, TW IV 972-1004. S. metamevlomai , end. M-M. B. 1123.*



metavnoia

metavnoia, a", hJ a change of mind ( Thu. 3, 36, 4; Polyb. 4, 66, 7; Appian , Mithrid. 16 §57; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 274, Ant. 16, 125), remorse (as regret for shortcomings and errors: Batr. 69; Lycon the Peripatetic [III BC ] in Diog. L. 5, 66; Polyb. 18, 33, 7; Stoic. III p. 147, l. 21 f ; Cebes 10, 4; 11, 1; Plut. , Mor. 56 A ; 68 F ; 961 D , Alex. 11, 4, Mar. 10, 4; 39, 3; Charito 1, 3, 7; Appian , Liby. 52 §225; 102 §482; 116 §553; M. Ant. 8, 10; Ps.- Lucian , Calumn. 5; Jos. , Ant. 13, 314) in our lit. w. an expressly religious

Don't use lexicons to promote boasting of self before God. Because that's pride.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

That's meaningless because you think you have to prove your saving faith by your works! No difference. Its the same as works salvation.
The misery is you can't know you have saving faith till your last breath.

Why persist in lying? What have you to gain by doing this?

 

[Sudakar]

Look at 2 Corinthians 7. Paul tells them that a godly sorrow leads them to repentance. He scolded them in his first letter he wrote to them, of all the chaos there in their church. Abusing the Lord’s table, suing each other, allowing a member to be in their congregation who had his dad‘s wife(hoping it was step mom and not his mother, both are bad, but mother? Ewwwwww!), etc. He commended them in that their repentance brought forth actions to rectify the problems his first letter addressed. True repentance is accompanied by true change of actions.

True repentance is accompanied by true change of actions according to God's standard (Mt5:48) not your self invented subjective arbitrary standard.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

True repentance is accompanied by true change of actions according to God's standard (Mt5:48) not your self invented subjective arbitrary standard.

Again, why are you living in a world of lies? What do you have to prove by being a perpetual liar?

 

[Sudakar]

Still non sequitur.

Your false pet standard of lordship is non sequitur!!

 

[Sudakar]

Nope.

That's self deception if you think you have saving faith.

 

[Magenta]

Assurance of salvation comes not from trusting in one's change of mind but from faith in the unchanging grace of God.

You lack understanding to think my saying coming to believe in the one true God turned my world upside down equates to a mere change of mind.