Prophecy, it’s not what most think.

[biker]

Also, when Jesus said the Father is GOD and is SPIRIT, Jesus also called the Spirit Father a HE!
so Jesus gave the Father, as a SPIRIT, a masculine term and yet it does not mean PERSON!

 

[biker]

So yes, if you or anyone cannot even use Jesus own words correctly, I will all day long, 24/7/365 call you out on your misinterpretation of the Scripture!

And I will always attack when you use a Pagan Creed, which is misusing Jesus words!

 

[biker]

Even the KJV gets it right on this:

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We clearly know this is Jesus speaking of the FATHER.
Jesus calls the Father a SPIRIT.
Jesus calls the Father, who is God and is SPIRIT a HIM (3) times!
Jesus proves God is a SPIRIT and can be given a masculine reference like HIM without meaning a Person!

 

[biker]

That knowledge ^ comes from READING/STUDYING the Word of God, not by a Pagan Creed!

 

[Blain]

Wow Biker you go bro your not having any of that huh? I am really starting to think he is just trolling it wouldn't be the first time cc was trolled in this manner

 

[CS1]

How would you understand any of Isaiah until after fulfillment? The Jews still think they are the subject of Isaiah 53.

again, the difference is forth-telling and foretelling Jesus said in Matt 24 about the destruction of the temple

" see these stone here, not one shall be left standing" He did not say when it would happen He said that it will happen. And it did in 70 AD.
Guess what some who heard Jesus say this, was dead before it happened. Peter died about 64 AD. Your understanding of the full context of prophecy has limited What God intended for it to do.

 

[biker]

Even the KJV gets it right on this:

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We clearly know this is Jesus speaking of the FATHER.
Jesus calls the Father a SPIRIT.
Jesus calls the Father, who is God and is SPIRIT a HIM (3) times!
Jesus proves God is a SPIRIT and can be given a masculine reference like HIM without meaning a Person!

And one more point that is extremely important here:

We know that God has a SOUL. So, the Father, as GOD, as a SPIRIT, called by the WORD Him, also has a SOUL!

Sometimes, people claim Soul and Spirit are the same thing.

John 4:23-24 PROVES YOU WRONG!

A SPIRIT GOD, the Father, referred to as Him, also has a SOUL!

Scriptures proving the SPIRIT GOD (from Jesus the WORDs explanation) has a SOUL:

• Leviticus 26:11And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
  See All... And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
• Leviticus 26:30
  And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
• Isaiah 42:1
  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
• Zechariah 11:8
  Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
• Matthew 12:18
  Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
• Hebrews 10:38
  Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Now we have solid Scriptural evidence that SPIRIT and SOUL are not the same thing.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus Christ won't be found any place on this physical earth, he warned his followers concerning this "False Teaching" of Millennialism.
"Go Not Forth" "Believe it Not"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

[had to break it up into sections ^ so it would all show up]


ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come[/etc]" passages are referring to His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, to judge and to reign ... [note: not "our Rapture" (though there IS a Rapture, be sure--these contexts are not speaking of it), per CONTEXT]...


So, this passage (and others like it) are referring to that (His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the earthly MK age).

The "warning" given in this passage "applies" to the specific time period LEADING UP TO that "RETURN" to the earth, for them not to believe those "false Christs and false prophets" showing "great signs and wonders" and saying "he is in the desert" or "he is in the secret chambers" ... over the course of some time...

 

[Truth7t7]

again, the difference is forth-telling and foretelling Jesus said in Matt 24 about the destruction of the temple

" see these stone here, not one shall be left standing" He did not say when it would happen He said that it will happen. And it did in 70 AD.
Guess what some who heard Jesus say this, was dead before it happened. Peter died about 64 AD. Your understanding of the full context of prophecy has limited What God intended for it to do.

I disagree with your preterist assumption.

Jesus Christ was speaking about the Temple being removed in the "Spiritual" when the veil was rent in the Holy of holies the temple was completely destroyed

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

 

[tourist]

Possibly your attitude hinders your perception of it. Look at it this way. Daniel said it would come when it did. In the time of the Roman Empire. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom saying it arrived. And he defined it in the gospels. The blind still looked for the physical millennial kingdom of the Pharisees. But the born again began seeing the spiritual kingdom taking shape. Peter preached the full gospel of the Kingdom at Pentecost showing both the kingdom and the salvation aspects related to it. Read Peter's sermon and it will help to see the reality of it. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/peter-and-the-gospel-of-the-kingdom.192413/

Daniel asked an angel about the time of the end and the angel said that information was sealed and that Daniel should go to his rest.

I'm not looking for a physical kingdom at all because I know, according to the prophets and the book of Revelation that the time of the end has not yet arrive. A lot of things must still happen. You really should study the book of Revelation because it will provided clarity to what the prophets spoke about in the OT.

I asked you once before, that as a born again believer, what are the manifestations you have seen that indicates that the spiritual kingdom of Jesus is now in effect? Still waiting for your response. You have claimed that if you are born-again you will see the spiritual kingdom of God. Exactly what is it that you see that indicates that the spiritual kingdom is now in effect? It's really a simple question, you say that you see it and I'm asking what it is that you see.

 

[tourist]

What rubbish you speak.
(Acts 1:6-7)
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Those two verses alone nullify everything that you spoken in this thread!

They most certainly do nullify his outlandish claims.

 

[tourist]

You believe like the Pharisees and will not understand until you believe what Jesus says instead.

Is that your own personal opinion or is it a biblical fact?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I disagree with your preterist assumption.

Jesus Christ was speaking about the Temple being removed in the "Spiritual" when the veil was rent in the Holy of holies the temple was completely destroyed

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Aside from the fact that I do not think CS1 is a "Preterist" (I could be wrong, but I think I am remembering correctly), I disagree with what I *THINK* your ultimate point is, behind what you seem to be suggesting (though I agree that Jesus spoke of His body as "this temple" in that particular verse)...


Consider a few things about the parallel passages:


Matthew 21:12-17 [the heading supplied says, 'Jesus cleanses the temple'] -

--v.12 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hieron - singular]"
--v.14 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - heiro - singular]"
--v.15 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hiero - singular]"


Mark 11:15-19 [under same heading supplied] -

--v.15 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hieron - singular]"
--v.16 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hierou - singular]"


Luke 19:45-48 [under same heading supplied] -

--v.45 "the temple/templ court [G2411 - hieron - singular]"
--v.47 "Jesus was teaching in the temple/temple court [G2411 - hiero - singular]" [<--the wording demonstrating there is a DISTINCTION between these two items]


John 2:12-25 [under same heading supplied] -

--v.14 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hiero - singular]
--v.15 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hierou - singular]"
--v.19 [Jesus said] "this [G3778 touton] temple [G3485 - naos - singular]
--v.20 [they said] "this [G3778 houtos] temple [G3485 - naos - singular] [re: the building]
--v.21 [but Jesus was referring to] "the temple [G3485 - naou - singular] of His body"


____________

There's another place where the word "THIS [G3778]" refers to a particular, specific ITEM/ENTITY (so to speak), but which the careless reader incorrectly "[mis-]applies" [just as they did in Jn2:20!] to the broader aspect of the whole of humanity instead... that is in the 1Cor15:51-54 context, esp vv.53, 54 where "THIS [G3778]" is used 4x and speaks PARTICULARLY/SPECIFICALLY about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" rather than the whole of humanity, or the entirety of "saints" of all other time periods, to/of which THIS CONTEXT is not referring.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[ ^ along with that]

Consider also:

Luke 21 -

5 And as some were speaking about the temple [G2411 - hierou - singular (or, temple court / -precinct)], that it was adorned with goodly stones and consecrated gifts, He said, 6 “As to these things [plural] which you are beholding, the days will come in which no stone will be left upon a stone, which will not be thrown down.”


Matthew 24:1 [parallel] uses the phrase "[to point out] its buildings [plural - G3619 - oikodomas ]" to which Jesus gives the [same] response, v.2 "Do you not see all these things [plural]? Truly I say to you, no not even a stone shall be left here upon a stone, which will not be thrown down."


So, in this context, it is referring to that [those things] which they were [specifically] looking at/beholding.

 

[CS1]

I disagree with your preterist assumption.

Jesus Christ was speaking about the Temple being removed in the "Spiritual" when the veil was rent in the Holy of holies the temple was completely destroyed

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

NO he was not He said in Matthew 24:2 in context to the Temple which HE just left after calling the Pharisees Hypocrites and HIS woe's to them. This is known as the Olivet discourse staring in Chapter 24 of Matthew.


When Jesus said in the Gospel of John 2:19 -21 was speaking of HIS Body . to different event of conversation.

it is not an assumption it is what Jesus said.

 

[CS1]

Aside from the fact that I do not think CS1 is a "Preterist" (I could be wrong, but I think I am remembering correctly), I disagree with what I *THINK* your ultimate point is, behind what you seem to be suggesting (though I agree that Jesus spoke of His body as "this temple" in that particular verse)...


Consider a few things about the parallel passages:


Matthew 21:12-17 [the heading supplied says, 'Jesus cleanses the temple'] -

--v.12 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hieron - singular]"
--v.14 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - heiro - singular]"
--v.15 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hiero - singular]"


Mark 11:15-19 [under same heading supplied] -

--v.15 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hieron - singular]"
--v.16 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hierou - singular]"


Luke 19:45-48 [under same heading supplied] -

--v.45 "the temple/templ court [G2411 - hieron - singular]"
--v.47 "Jesus was teaching in the temple/temple court [G2411 - hiero - singular]" [<--the wording demonstrating there is a DISTINCTION between these two items]


John 2:12-25 [under same heading supplied] -

--v.14 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hiero - singular]
--v.15 "the temple/temple court [G2411 - hierou - singular]"
--v.19 [Jesus said] "this [G3778 touton] temple [G3485 - naos - singular]
--v.20 [they said] "this [G3778 houtos] temple [G3485 - naos - singular] [re: the building]
--v.21 [but Jesus was referring to] "the temple [G3485 - naou - singular] of His body"


____________

There's another place where the word "THIS [G3778]" refers to a particular, specific ITEM/ENTITY (so to speak), but which the careless reader incorrectly "[mis-]applies" [just as they did in Jn2:20!] to the broader aspect of the whole of humanity instead... that is in the 1Cor15:51-54 context, esp vv.53, 54 where "THIS [G3778]" is used 4x and speaks PARTICULARLY/SPECIFICALLY about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" rather than the whole of humanity, or the entirety of "saints" of all other time periods, to/of which THIS CONTEXT is not referring.

I would not say you are wrong. I think you have clearly provided excellent Exegesis of Matthew 24 context. And seeing that John 2 was not contextual with what Jesus said then when HE was speaking in Matthew 24.


in John 2 he said Destroy "this" Temple and in three days HE would rebuild it in verse 21 John remind us IT WAS HIS Body Jesus was speaking about IN this chapter of John 2.


In Mathew 24 Verse 1 Jesus Disciples came to show HIM the temple, Jesus said in verse :2

"Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down"

That was on the temple on the outside of it the wall that was torn down.

 

[Truth7t7]

I would not say you are wrong. I think you have clearly provided excellent Exegesis of Matthew 24 context. And seeing that John 2 was not contextual with what Jesus said then when HE was speaking in Matthew 24.


in John 2 he said Destroy "this" Temple and in three days HE would rebuild it in verse 21 John remind us IT WAS HIS Body Jesus was speaking about IN this chapter of John 2.

In Mathew 24 Verse 1 Jesus Disciples came to show HIM the temple, Jesus said in verse :2

"Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down"

That was on the temple on the outside of it the wall that was torn down.

I'm fully aware of the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24

Do you believe Daniels abomination Matt 24:15, and the great tribulation Matt 24:21 took place in 70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem?

 

[oyster67]

Most of the prophecies about the coming of Christ were so vague, we could never base a detailed forecast on them until after fulfilled.

This 'vagueness-so-called' would completely defeat the purpose of prophecy. This is convolution carried to the extreme. Prophecies can also be used to warn us about the future. Pretending to be deaf, blind, and ignorant will not keep you from going to hell. You have been warned about this many times here on CC.

The spiritually blind are blind because they have chosen to be so. Yield your mind, body, and soul to the Lord today. He will be kind and merciful and forgive you of all your false teachings today if you will allow Him.

 

[oyster67]

If you believe in a physical millennium, it proves you do not understand prophecy.

Wow, just......, wow

 

[Angela53510]

Yes, the kingdom of God because it is spiritual. The kingdom of heaven, however, is physical. Both were at hand during the time of Christ. Only the spiritual is at hand at the present, but the physical kingdom will be restored to Israel in the Millennium.

No, you are wrong! The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven are the same thing.

Most of time Mark, Luke and John use "kingdom of God," they are referring to the same thing, the Kingdom which Jesus initiated.

Matthew, on the other hand, uses the phrase, "Kingdom of heaven" as the same thing as the other 3 gospels call the "Kingdom of God." Why the difference in terminology?

Luke wrote his gospel to Theophilus, a Greek. Mark was likely Writing to Gentile converts, as he stops to explain various Hebrew and Aramaic terms. John wrote to Ephesians Gentiles. That leaves 3 gospels being written to Gentiles.

The exception to that was Matthew! It was written to Jewish Christians, probably located in the Jewish homeland. Jews abhor saying the name of God. You may see people who are Messianic Jews, use G-D, leaving out the vowel. But a better way for a Jew to avoid using the word God, was to change it to another word. IOW, heaven means God.

Looking at parallel passages confirms this!!

"Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” frequently in parallel accounts of the same parable Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each instance, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases refer to the same thing."

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-heaven-God.html

"Within the universal kingdom of God, however, there are other concepts referred to as kingdoms. Principal among these are the kingdom of God, found seventy-two times in the New Testament, and the kingdom of heaven, found thirty-two times, all in the Gospel of Matthew.

A comparison of these features of the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God reveal many similarities: (1) both are at hand; (2) some features of both designated mysteries; (3) both entered only by the righteous as even profession requires outward conformity; (4) both include saved men; (5) both grow rapidly; (6) both have “birds” representing Satan and his angels, but in neither are these an organic part of the tree; (7) individuals in both likened unto children; (8) both are difficult to enter; (9) both have leaven, symbolic of bad doctrine, externalism, unbelief, and worldliness; (10) both contain Gentiles.

Because of the similarity of the two kingdoms and the fact that heaven is sometimes used as an equivalent for God, the majority of scholars have taken the position that the terms are identical or at least are used as synonyms. Based on the principle of interpretation that the context must determine the meaning of an expression, it would seem clear that in parallel passages the emphasis is on similarity of concept."

https://bible.org/article/kingdom-heaven

"
While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error.

For example, speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23). In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous." (Got questions.org)