"Not by works" - false!

[mailmandan]

I'm not saying that Christ's work isn't enough, I'm saying that we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

You basically are saying that Christ’s finished work of redemption is not enough if you are adding commandment keeping and sinless perfection to salvation through faith. Are you using Hebrews 10:26 to support sinless perfection?

 

[DBurrage]

you accused me of trying to undermine your message.

well, when you say stuff like this, refuse to answer questions, you undermine your own message.

you have no authority nor will you even mention how many times you read the Bible, so your lecturing is invalid.

You're right, I have no authority.
Nor have I claimed to have any.

Neither of us have any authority as neither of us are more favoured by God to deliver his message.

You're right, I won't say how many times I have read the Bible, as I do not believe it to be relevant?
Are you saying that the 'strength' of your faith is measured on how many times one has read the Bible?
Is somebody who has read the Bible 10 times a 'better' Christian than somebody who has read it 5 times?

 

[DBurrage]

You basically are saying that Christ’s finished work of redemption is not enough if you are adding commandment keeping and sinless perfection to salvation through faith. Are you using Hebrews 10:26 to support sinless perfection?

Mate, I'm not going to repeat myself endlessly.

We are reconciled with God through Christ, AND we have a duty to not deliberately sin, and if we do continually deliberately sin after receiving grace then Jesus' blood will not cover that sin

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Now how many more times would you like me to say that...

 

[mailmandan]

Mate, I'm not going to repeat myself endlessly.

We are reconciled with God through Christ, AND we have a duty to not deliberately sin, and if we do continually deliberately sin after receiving grace then Jesus' blood will not cover that sin

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Now how many more times would you like me to say that...

You need to define your terms - “deliberately continue sinning.” I defined my terms in posts #113 and #115. Are you teaching sinless perfection?

 

[oyster67]

The "Doctrine of Selective Coverage"

This doctrine would be false

Agree. The "Doctrine of Selective Coverage" ie. Hypercalvinism, is indeed false.

 

[jackrosie]

With all due respect, this sounds like terminological inexactitude and, frankly, fluffy nonsense.

Of course it's difficult not to sin, as we are not perfect.
That's not to say that we should not try, or that we should not want to sin.

Are you saying that we shouldn't make a conscious effort to love our neighbor as ourselves, for instance?

If you find my post "fluffy nonsense"...I don't have a problem with that.

I have been saved...God has forgiven my sins..my slate is clean in the Lords eyes.......why would I try to love my n

With all due respect, this sounds like terminological inexactitude and, frankly, fluffy nonsense.

Of course it's difficult not to sin, as we are not perfect.
That's not to say that we should not try, or that we should not want to sin.

Are you saying that we shouldn't make a conscious effort to love our neighbor as ourselves, for instance?

It may sound like fluffy nonsense to you....,but I have my own personal relationship with God.

I was born again 28 yrs ago.....like I have said...I ask God to help me love my neighbour as myself.

How can I love my neighbour in my own strength...when I'm born again?

 

[azamzimtoti]

Please stop making the same point over and over.

See posts #4 and #7.
We are not justified by the law - correct.

But are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?

Are you saying we need to keep the sabbath?

 

[Dave-L]

2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves".


I would like to contend that the notion that salvation is given to us ONLY in return for believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior is INCOMPLETE.


We ARE asked to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation:
Acts 16:30-31
" "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" ".


HOWEVER, Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning, and we are warned that if we deliberately/knowingly continue in sin following the acceptance of Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will NOT cover these sins:
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

This of course makes sense.
If we SAY we follow Jesus but continue rebelling against God, then are we REALLY following Jesus?
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter".


So then, we must accept Jesus into our lives and believe in him.
AND we must also stop rebelling against God, even after we have accepted Jesus into our lives.


What I have said may be obvious to many, but all the time I hear excuses from Christians to justify their sinning:
"Nobody is perfect" - nobody has said that you are
"God will forgive me" - actually, according to Matt 7:21, if you continue to sin after accepting Jesus, Jesus' sacrifice won't cover your sin (verse above)
"We're human, and humans are fallible" - typical excuse!
"It is impossible not to sin, as we are not perfect" - this article sums it up very well: https://www.gotquestions.org/go-and-sin-no-more.html
Have you heard these kind of excuses too?


Christians have no excuses for deliberately/knowingly sinning:
1 John 1:6
"If, then, we say that we have fellowship with him, yet at the same time live in the darkness, we are lying both in our words and in our actions".

= salvation only for the self-righteous.

 

[oyster67]

You've agreed with another user, who said that Hebrews 10:26 only refers to apostasy.

I believe that it has been interpreted this way due to the widely held belief that all we need is faith in Jesus to be saved.
Yes, we are saved in our faith in Christ, but Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning.

In reading the Bible, God has not communicated to me that Hebrews 10:26 only means apostasy.
God has told me that we are not perfect just because we have decided to follow Jesus, and that we still sin.
God has told me that deliberately sinning, any sin, will not be covered by Jesus' blood.

In as few words as possible, what is Apostacy? (not a trick question).

 

[Fastfredy0]

If you think that Christians can behave as they wish, then that represents your understanding of the Bible.
Is this what you think?

The question is not phrased well. Everyone behaves as they wish. Christians tend to "wish" to obey God so they do so, though imperfectively.

Are you saying that you no longer sin?

No, I sin.

You are the one that posted Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate] .... then interpreted by saying that any willful sin disqualifies one from the sacrifice for sin. You, I believe, say you have willfully sinned and therefore using your definition of the verse seem to say you have been disqualified to participate in the sacrifice for sin. The implication is, since we all willfully sin, that no one is saved using your interpretation. I think you may qualify your meaning to adjust for this implication.
(I, on the other hand, say the 4 commentators believe that the sin in question is apostrophy (turning from faith) and this seems to fit the verse better ... otherwise, no one is saved via you interpretation.

 

[DBurrage]

You need to define your terms - “deliberately continue sinning.” I defined my terms in posts #113 and #115. Are you teaching sinless perfection?

I don't need to define anything, I'm simply telling you what God has put in me.

Christians should make a conscious effort not to rebel against God in any way.

Put in this way you might say "well that's obvious".
So why, when it comes to Hebrews 10:26, do you say it's only apostasy?

 

[oyster67]

You basically are saying that Christ’s finished work of redemption is not enough if you are adding commandment keeping and sinless perfection to salvation through faith. Are you using Hebrews 10:26 to support sinless perfection?

Nobody here is supporting sinless perfection.

 

[DBurrage]

Are you saying we need to keep the sabbath?

In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come.

 

[DBurrage]

In as few words as possible, what is Apostacy? (not a trick question).

The rejection of Christ by one who has been a Christian.

 

[Fastfredy0]

If we continue to deliberately sin after receiving grace, Jesus' blood will not cover these sins

All Christians continue to deliberately sin after receiving grace. Thus you contend that no one is saved unless you can better qualify what you mean by "deliberately sin". The dictionary would define "deliberately sin" as 'intentionally disobey God'.

Aside: There are some (very, very few) Christians that claim they never sin.

 

[azamzimtoti]

The lawyers are popping up like weeds.

(Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law)


(Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith)

(Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.)

^^
The death knell for the lawyers

 

[mailmandan]

I don't need to define anything, I'm simply telling you what God has put in me.

Christians should make a conscious effort not to rebel against God in any way.

Put in this way you might say "well that's obvious".
So why, when it comes to Hebrews 10:26, do you say it's only apostasy?

You need to read Hebrews 10:26 in context.

 

[DBurrage]

The lawyers are popping up like weeds.

(Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law)


(Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith)

(Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.)

^^
The death knell for the lawyers

You're accusing anybody who thinks that Christians should make a conscious effort to not rebel against God as trying to emulate those under Mosaic law.

I would respectfully advise you to exercise diligence and put greater thought into your words.

 

[mailmandan]

Nobody here is supporting sinless perfection.

Then why does he hesitate to answer my question? We’ve had sinless perfectionists on Christian Chat before.

 

[oyster67]

The rejection of Christ by one who has been a Christian.

That (apostacy) sounds like Hebrews 10:26 to me.