Is marking of Mark of the Beast is literal or just figurative?
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Yes some forget the first apostle, prophet and martyr was Abel .
Genesis 4 . . where the doctrine is found. It is the foundation of the mark of Cain (666) a beast of the field. No outward sign is given .The evil generation, natural unconverted. faithless mankind seeks after the temporal, as a signs and wonder gospel having no eternal vision by faith.
Us like Abel who did find rest in the work of sufferings... the wage of sin. Our load is lighter.
Fair enough. Do you accept that there is a significant and important distinction between the two groups?
Romans 11:
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
God made a promise to their father Abraham and it was unconditional. That is why during the Tribulation, he will come and rescue the Jews from the Anti-christ, and bring them into the promised land.
As for the Gentiles, they have no excuse not to accept Jesus's death burial resurrection NOW. God became enemies with Israel, abeilt temporary, so that us gentiles can be saved NOW.
I joined my Church soon after they completed a study of the book of revelation, so I missed out. But our pastor regularly emphasizes the importance of checking to see what the other books of the Bible say about a particular topic.
He reminds us that the Bible never contradicts itself, so we need to consider what the Bible says as a whole. He said that no scripture should be taken in isolation, and that many preachers run into problems when they try to interpret scriptures in isolation.
You have made the same point in your comment, and it makes very good sense so I tank you for it.
I've been waiting for the restrictions to be lifted, so I can ask my pastor about the types of red flags that I should watch out for when I listen to sermons online.
My dilemma is, I listen to various preachers who disagree with each other yet they both seem to be genuine believers. So they put me in a position, where I need to chose which one to believe and it's hard because of my limited knowledge.
I'm currently trying to establish a framework, so I can identify heretical teaching when I hear it. So my aim is to find out, what sort things should cause me to cease fellowship with those who teach or believe heretical doctrine. I know that there are some things, we can disagree on and still have fellowship and there are some other things which are "non negotiable".
I tried to do a google search for a list of these but I couldn't find a clear list, I'm not even sure if there is a clear list. Everything in the Bible seems to have many different interpretations, so that makes it eve harder to get a clear picture.
Faithless Jews are in the same boat as the same as faithless Gentiles. No faith. The the same faithless excuse.
As new creatures we are commanded, and not just a good suggestion that we know no man after the corrupted flesh of mankind to include that of the Son of man . One flesh is not more beloved than another for the fathers sake. We are made aware of that wile from the evil one.
Even Jesus said of his own flesh it profits for nothing. Some think the flesh profits. . . others trust the Spirit that works in them as did Jesus . who did not come to do the will of his flesh .
Below when the prophet Jesus was sent as a apostle by the father communed he with the faithless Jew.(John 6)
Jesus said to them. What if you do not see his corrupted flesh, will you still trust and walk by faith the (unseen) Or would they trust in the pagan foundation. Out of sight out of mind and walk away.
When they found out that Jesus walked by faith and not his own will of the flesh .They wanted nothing to do with him they walked away .Out of sight out of mind to display their unbelief.
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life John 6:63
Which camp are you following after? Those who walked away in unbelief *(no faith) or those who were trusting the father as Jesus or like Peter.
Peter knew, the same father worked in him to reveal His will as where to go to receive the spiritual work . That which is life spirit giving
I am from the green and red camp .Not the black camp
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.67-68
Which Master seeing no man can serve two.? The Spirit or the flesh?
Thanks for the reply
Genuine believers, I think are given a understanding they are on a learning curve. They have the confidence that if Christ has begun the good work in them that he will finish it till the last day . (Phil 1:6)
One thing I have learned that seem to be helpful to me is .As apologist we defend the faith of Christ that works in us to defend his integrity. We can learn as iron sharpens iron but in the end planting seeds and watering must be accompanied by the work of his unseen Holy Spirit .
We have the privilege to put on and keep on the armor of God . No protection for the back .He has our back as the rear guard making sure the slower learners do not get left behind .
In that way we have no power coming from each other (we wrestle not against flesh and blood,) but apply that power that works in these earthen bodies when gathering together. (two or three. . or two or three billion.)
Ephesians 6:10-18 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ...
The non negotiable are the pillars of our faith.
Virgin birth
Diety of Jesus
Crucified,dead and buried.
Resurrected
Glorified honored and enthroned in heaven
Salvation via his shed blood
The promise to be with him at death
To be ready to share the hope within you.
You can add the fallen nature of man through adam and Gods remedy or redemption by the God Man His Son Jesus.
We believe salvation is only through Jesus.
Those are non negotiable.
The rapture is a separate issue not required to be saved.
But you have to see end times through heavens prism.
Otherwise you will bog down in test fitting without a panoramic view.
Get the panoramic view first.
Watch the pieces fit perfectly.
I was asking to see if there was some kind of spiritual scanner available, which could separate the sheep from the goats. But I guess that will come with experience.
I recently had a steep learning curb, when I took a 18 yo homeless guy into my house. He claimed to be a Christian and he sounded genuine. I feed him and looked after him for 3 weeks, then he robbed me and sexually molested a relative of mine then disappeared.
I felt really stupid for being so gullible, I bought all of this trouble into my life because of a lack of discernment. I should have questioned his faith more closely and I probably should have seen a red flag when he told me that he attends the Hillsong Church.
I'm trying to learn how to determine, who I can have fellowship with and whom I should part ways with. Most of my family and relatives are Roman Catholics and my friends are a mixture of every religion and some are Atheists. Now I don't trust anyone outside of my Church and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.
I'd like to practice what Christ taught, when He said "You will know them by their fruits". So I need to find the balance of being in the world but not of it, I don't want to turn my back on all my family friends and relatives but it takes discipline to discern when it's profitable and when to wipe the dirt of my feet after leaving someone's house.
It's all too easy to be swept along with this world and it's cares, while it's heads to hell in a hand basket.
That's quite a short list, so it's nice and easy to remember.
I still worry about those wolves in sheep's clothing, they can appear to be genuine believers and display all of the outward signs. We see examples in the bible, where some pretty wise men were deceived by them.
I don't mind being a fool for the cause of Christ, but I don't want to be fooled for any man's sake.
I still worry about those wolves in sheep's clothing, they can appear to be genuine believers and display all of the outward signs. We see examples in the bible, where some pretty wise men were deceived by them.
I don't mind being a fool for the cause of Christ, but I don't want to be fooled for any man's sake.
Not saying one way or the other , just mentioning that I saw somewhere that insect sized 5g robots were being developed that could home in on and attack whoever they were programmed to identify and find/track down whoever takes a chip if desired attacked..
The word 'mark' used in Revelation is translated as a literal etching, engraving, or stamp. The casual reader would normally understand it to be a literal thing, I think. It's a warning to not take the mark, so being vague about what the mark is unhelpful to the reader. I think the mark is literal and is most likely an RFID chip that will be used in electronic currency.
Imagine for a moment not being able to buy or sell without the mark. We'd end up homeless, hungry, cold, sick, etc and no one would help us because we wouldn't have electronic currency. Most people absolutely will take the mark given how much harder their life will be without it.
Then once the masses are have all taken the bait they'll do anything to keep their precious mark even worshipping the anti-Christ because the alternative will be being cut off from the economy and ostracized from society, persecuted, jailed, or even killed. Self-preservation will make most people do anything for a little comfort.
Hey Bojack!
Hadn't heard of the insect sized robots. I have heard of the Apache helicopter theory started by Hal Lindsey. However, if we use the details of their description, it soon becomes clear that these things that resemble locusts are demonic beings. The first clue of this, is that an star/angel falls from heaven having the key to the shaft of the Abyss and opens it. And out of the shaft comes smoke like a furnace and out of the smoke comes these locusts. The Abyss is the same place that Satan and his angels are toing to be thrown into when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. And the Abyss is also the same place that those demonic being collectively called 'Legion' begged Jesus not to cast them into. Therefore, we can conclude that this are not helicopters coming from an underground base.
Another characteristic is that their king is the angel of the Abyss who is called Abaddon/Apollyon which means destroyer. We can also conclude from their descriptions having hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth, faces like human faces, tails and stingers like scorpions and looking like horses prepared for battle, that these are not your garden variety locusts.
That fact that they come up out of the Abyss and that they have as king over them the angel of the Abyss definitely tells us that these are demonic beings which resemble locusts. Also, by the description of their wings which sound like horses and chariots rushing into battle, as well as the reference to havinv teeth like lions teeth, I would say that they are not going to be 6 inches in length, but bigger in size. My thinking here is that horses and chariots rushing into battle would be a very low pitch rumble, which would mean that their wings would have to be bigger than a common locust, which make a higher pitched sound.
In studying this 5th trumpet, I concluded that these things will be demonic beings coming up being released from the Abyss. In further support of this, it states that that are told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Therefore, because they are able to take instruction it tells me that they are intelligent.
Just my observation
Do you ever wonder if John was describing things no one, even he could not explain what he was seeing but did the best he could ? jus sayin .. And I know there are people possessed with demons and oppressed by demons ..
I believe that when John calls something a horse for example, that it is a horse. He is not going to call any type military vehicle a horse or anything else. Scripture also demonstrates that John is able to make comparisons such as when he says, "they had faces like human faces, hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth, the looked like horses prepared for battle. When John is speaking about something that is from nature, then everyone who is reading is on the same page, regardless of generation or millennia.
Regarding the 5th trumpet, I believe John is seeing demonic being released from the Abyss, which is the same time that the beast, that angel of the Abyss, comes out.
I'm not saying one way or the other, just asking .. I know he said ''like horses'' and that the mystery of iniquity was already at work when Simon the Sorcerer was rebuked , and that anyone who could build such horrible machines of torture and death and use them to extract money or confessions from a whole population that there have always been demon possessed antichrists just different tech .. Have you seen some of those torture devices ? I'm all for law enforcement even the death penalty but not heartless torture, never eve dreamed of such things .. IMO they had to come from demonic influence .. I tend to agree with you but I don't rule it out that demon oppressed men are working on these things right now and some fool will do it the instant they can of think they can get away with it ..
I think it is literal. Some of revelation is literal and but most of it a figure of speech. The mark is a literal mark identified as a chip of some sorts. The battle of Armageddon is not both literal and figurative, we wont actually see demons but they will have inhabited people to battle against God. The battle against God is demon inspired.
Hello again! I disagree in that, much of the book of Revelation literal. And the way that it should be read is that, if the plain literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense." We have a problem today where people have been told that the book of Revelation is all symbolism and because of this the true literal meaning is distorted. An example of symbolism would be the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, as well as a dragon with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns. That said, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are literal plagues making up God's wrath.
Regarding people not seeing demons, they will. At the sounding of the 5th trumpet, those demonic beings resembling locusts, horses prepared for battle, having hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth and faces like human faces, tails and stings like scorpions, will be released from the Abyss and will be given power to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with their stings. Only the those having the seal of God on their foreheads will be exempt from this plague, which are the 144,000 who were sealed in Revelation 7. There will also be four evil angels who are currently bound at the great Euphrates River and will be released to kill one third of mankind along with their demonic horde of 200 million, by fire, smoke and sulfur which proceeds from their mouths.
Regarding Armageddon, there will be those three demonic spirits mentioned at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, who will go throughout the earth to gather together the kings of the earth to battle. It will be a literal battle, as there will be an angel who will call all of the birds of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God to eat the flesh of all those whom the Lord will kill with that double-edged sword that proceeds from His mouth, which is figuratively representing the word of God.