THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

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EleventhHour

Guest
#801
#801
Sudakar said:
Faith is the confidence and assurance one indeed has the Son and eternal life. Works don't give confidence because no christian has ceased sinning.
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The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the result of faith, for the believer is the proof they are saved
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#802
Apr 7, 2014
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#802
Sudakar said:
"Absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult."

You are eisegeting into Mathew 5:48 what Jesus neved stated to suit your sinfulness & prove you've saving faith.
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I disagree and I can see that having this conversation with you is fruitless waste of time. :rolleyes: Moving on..
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#803
Sep 14, 2019
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#803
EleventhHour said:
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the result of faith, for the believer is the proof they are saved
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The Holy Spirit continually testifies about Christ's atonement and thus preserves our faith which is the confidence we have saving faith.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#804
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
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#804
EleventhHour said:
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the result of faith, for the believer is the proof they are saved
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I still say scripture is the best proof. Some may not “feel” the Holy Spirit in their lives. Feelings are never good proof. Scripture states that the believer has the seal of the Holy Spirit. That’s good enough for me.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#805
#805
Sudakar said:
The Holy Spirit continually testifies about Christ's atonement and thus preserves our faith which is the confidence we have saving faith.
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You do not preach sinless perfectionism do you?

It is a little unclear from your posts.
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#806
Sep 14, 2019
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#806
mailmandan said:
I disagree and I can see that having this conversation with you is fruitless waste of time. :rolleyes: Moving on..
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You abuse the 1John3 passage to suit your degree of sinfulness in order to prove you have saving faith. That is works based salvation as follows:
Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Your conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

Thus you preach the heresy of works based salvation.

You aren't yet saved.
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#808
Sep 14, 2019
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#808
mailmandan said:
I disagree and I can see that having this conversation with you is fruitless waste of time. :rolleyes: Moving on..
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1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#809
#809
Sudakar said:
I believe in sinless perfectionism by imputation through faith not through my works.
Col 2:10
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The thing is many believe works prove salvation, however it does not mean that they are not saved.

I think that works give evidence of salvation in that it should line up with our testimony and witness as James teaches.

There is much confusion around "dead faith" and works proving faith .. when James was really speaking about the nature of faith to a group of people who had a works mindset.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#810
#810
Sudakar said:
1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
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Here you go to far... you are making assumptions about people being saved when you yourself are making a case that works do not give proof of salvation.

So you are contradicting yourself.
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#811
Sep 14, 2019
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#811
EleventhHour said:
The thing is many believe works prove salvation, however it does not mean that they are not saved.



I think that works give evidence of salvation in that it should line up with our testimony and witness as James teaches.

There is much confusion around "dead faith" and works proving faith .. when James was really speaking about the nature of faith to a group of people who had a works mindset.
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True fruit of salvation is the confession of faith.

If good works is the evidence of saving faith, evil works is the evidence for the absence of saving faith. It is two way.

James is talking to those who believe there is one God and not to those who believe in Christ's atonement.
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#812
Sep 14, 2019
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#812
EleventhHour said:
Here you go to far... you are making assumptions about people being saved when you yourself are making a case that works do not give proof of salvation.

So you are contradicting yourself.
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I don't. Why?

Claim 1: Good works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Evil works means no salvation.

Thus they preach the heresy of works based salvation. How can they be assumed to be saved?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#813
#813
Sudakar said:
True fruit of salvation is the confession of faith.

If good works is the evidence of saving faith, evil works is the evidence for the absence of saving faith. It is two way.

James is talking to those who believe there is one God and not to those who believe in Christ's atonement.
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Well you have James wrong then.

And evidence is important....otherwise our words are hollow.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#814
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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#814
Sudakar said:
1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
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2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#815
Sep 14, 2019
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#815
EleventhHour said:
Well you have James wrong then.

And evidence is important....otherwise our words are hollow.
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Having faith in Christ's atonement to save isn't hollow. Demons don't have that faith.

If you trust in your good works for evidence you have saving faith, your evil works prove you lack saving faith. And you aren't saved! It boils down to that.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#816
#816
Sudakar said:
Having faith in Christ's atonement to save isn't hollow. Demons don't have that faith.

If you trust in your good works for evidence you have saving faith, your evil works prove you lack saving faith. And you aren't saved! It boils down to that.
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Since we all still sin then no one is saved.
 
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Sudakar

Banned
#817
Sep 14, 2019
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#817
mailmandan said:
2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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Your trust in good works to prove your saving faith and your trust in evil works to disprove your saving faith proves you don't know whether you'll have saving faith till your last breath. You can have no joy and assurance you are saved.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#819
#819
Sudakar said:
If you trust in your evil works to disprove you have saving faith.
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Are you talking about proof to others or proof to ourselves, I think you need to make a distinction.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#820
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
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#820
Sudakar said:
So what do your evil works speak for, blabbermouth?
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I call Jesus Himself to my defense.
(John 10:32)
Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

FROM THE FATHER
 
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