Roman Catholic?

[SantoSubito]

the sign of the cross is not used by the early church,it was brought in by the roman church. we true christians shouldnt use any signs,the sign should be in our heart and mind in Jesus. dont do what the pagans do, we are a separate people, a sanctified people.

''wakeup''.

The thing is pagans did practically everything. They prayed, had religious buildings, had memorial meals, celebrated religious holidays, had spiritual leaders, and did practically everything Christians do but without Christ. Honestly, the much more likely conclusion is you say it's pagan because it's Catholic. I doubt you would disapprove of the rosary if it was created by the reformation, and instead of Ave Marias, Pater Nosters were said instead.

 

[dscherck]

i used the rosary when i was a ten year old but that was how i was told. use to go for confession,yes i remember how to pray the hail mary fifty times to have my sins forgiven.

So... You are aware that when you pray the rosary, you're meditating on the mysteries of Jesus right? You know, the parts of Jesus' life such as the Agony in the Gardenn of Gethsemene, the Scourging at the Pillar, the Carrying of the Cross, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, etc... The rosary is focused on Jesus, it's all about meditating on what He did for us.

 

[wakeup]

The Anglicans and Lutherans have a variant on the rosary. Does that make them by default part of the Roman Church? Because I'm pretty sure they fall under the Protestant label. Seriously though, beads are used by different cultures to count prayers, saying that the beads are pagans because pagans may have used them is utter nonsense. Pagans used crosses, so dies that make all crosses pagan?

yes but we as christians are not to let strangers in the sanctuary,dont adopt anything that is not in the scripture, for one thing will lead to another,and i am afraid it has happened,satan is so crafty everything he does is gradual, step by step,and he has 2000yrs and he has been successful, only because they have not been faithful to the word, they have to adopt the word of strangers. now strangers have entered the sanctuary. what looks good is not necessary good. satan has robbed the nest of their eggs, and they dont even moved a wing.

 

[SantoSubito]

yes but we as christians are not to let strangers in the sanctuary,dont adopt anything that is not in the scripture, for one thing will lead to another,and i am afraid it has happened,satan is so crafty everything he does is gradual, step by step,and he has 2000yrs and he has been successful, only because they have not been faithful to the word, they have to adopt the word of strangers. now strangers have entered the sanctuary. what looks good is not necessary good. satan has robbed the nest of their eggs, and they dont even moved a wing.

Let me guess, the Reformation was God combating the wickedness of Satan's church, right? I always find it strange for people to consider the Reformation as a restoration of God's universal Church. Considering it never gained headway in areas that didn't adopt Protestantism as their state church, and weren't colonized by Protestant nations. If France had one out for dominance of North America then we would likely be living in a near 100% Catholic nation, since we never received huge waves of poor protestant immigration to the US.

 

[wakeup]

@dscherck - that would be great if you could provide me a link. Unlike at Fatima, I think, where it was a nun that was under the vow of obedience, I don't think the lay visionaries are probably under the same vow in regards to the Bishop.

Zeroturbulence - yes, I have read of similar stories on the Medejuorje site of pilgrims witnessing visions, of conversions and healings there. I too believe something is going on there and I believe Mary is telling the whole world message from there and it would be good to heed them. But as you said, this in not a site for Catholics, which is kind of sad really considering the Catholic Church, founded in in the first century AD is one of the longest standing institutions in the world.

Pneuma - is it a coincidence that through the centuries, it is the Roman Catholic faith that has saints (and I think the only faith that has nuns) that have had visions from God, Jesus or the Virgin Mary? Are all these people throughout history crazy? Are these six people in Bosnia been hallucinating and lying for thirty years? Or that three illiterate shepher children at Fatima were lying of their Virgin Mary apparitions? Try reading the actual stories and reading the messages of these phenomena and see.

you have underestimated the great deceiver,you have been made drunk with those miracles,that you have forgotten the crafty creature named SATAN,THE FATHER OF LIES. HE ALWAYS COPY,TO FOOL THE MASSES. HE CAN APPEAR AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE,YOU WILL BE FOOLED.

''WAKEUP''.

 

[VRJ]

At Fatima remember, the sun moved in circles...........only those there saw this event.

Revelation 13:13; "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." Again, once people have been controlled, especially by religion, you can easily program them. In Jesus day the mob nailed him to the cross.

Today's technology especially with the HAARP system can easily place a holographic image in the clouds to make people think it is who ever the governments want. Now the technology is so advanced that they can use micro wave to have to speak into a persons brain. They now have that advantage.....

Beware of false prophets ....that come in sheeps clothing.........

 

[wakeup]

Let me guess, the Reformation was God combating the wickedness of Satan's church, right? I always find it strange for people to consider the Reformation as a restoration of God's universal Church. Considering it never gained headway in areas that didn't adopt Protestantism as their state church, and weren't colonized by Protestant nations. If France had one out for dominance of North America then we would likely be living in a near 100% Catholic nation, since we never received huge waves of poor protestant immigration to the US.

DONT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING? ALL CHURCHES, SATAN HAS INFILTRATED, since the churches in asia minor,the 7 churches. rev2:13. i knowthy works,and where thou dwellest,even where satans seat is----

there is not one physical church that has the true teachings,because god has blinded their eyes,because of their heart, is not right before God. i said physical. so where is the true church? all the souls that worship God in truth, is his church.

 

[SantoSubito]

At Fatima remember, the sun moved in circles...........only those there saw this event.

Revelation 13:13; "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." Again, once people have been controlled, especially by religion, you can easily program them. In Jesus day the mob nailed him to the cross.

Today's technology especially with the HAARP system can easily place a holographic image in the clouds to make people think it is who ever the governments want. Now the technology is so advanced that they can use micro wave to have to speak into a persons brain. They now have that advantage.....

Beware of false prophets ....that come in sheeps clothing.........

Third things;

First, your post sounds very tin foil hat like. Second, you are aware that the miracle at Fatima occurred in 1917 right? Which was a time when we had only had radios for about 15 years, telephones had just recently come into widespread use, and television hadn't been invented yet. So how exactly did they project an image into the sky with 1917 technology?

Third, Portugal at this time was under the control of a fascist atheistic regime that was extremely hostile to religion. A large number of Atheists came to witness the miracle and converted that very day when they saw it. So that pretty well rules out the "religion program" theory of yours. Like I said before you really only have two options when it comes to Fatima; it was either demonic or God-sent.

 

[VRJ]

The phenomenon was called the "Dance of the Sun" or the Miracle of the Sun. This also happened at many locations of Marian apparitions, from Medjugorje, Bosnia, to Lubbock, Texas and Conyers, Georgia, in the US. In Sabana Grande, Pueto Rico. This was the "Medjugorje: The Lasting Sign, a video narrated by Martin Sheen. Directed by Rob Wallace and produced by Cinematic Visions, Inc. 1989.

These seemsto be admirable, even mind-boggling feats for the apparitions to perform in order to guarantee that they are whom they claim to be, but identifying oneself as Mary does not make someone Mary, and identifying oneself as Jesus Christ does not make someone Jesus Christ. Offering a crucifix to someone does not prove divine origins, and sprinkling a vision with holy water does not force a demon to speak truthfully. Commanding an apparition to leave if it not Mary is completely useless as the method for discerning spirits, and making the sun come down to earth while 70,000 people look on is truly fascinating, but it doesn't prove a thing about the origins of the apparition. It only proves that it exists. But even if something looks like Mary, acts like Mary and says it is Mary, all of the claims, miracles and cures don't mean anythin it is isn't really her.

Jesus warned: Take heed that ye be ot decrived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them." Luke 21:8, Matthew 24:4,5

When the apparition of Mary appeared to the children of Melleray Crotto, Ireland in 1985, it said, "I will show myself to more people in more places." and when it appeared again in Bessbrook Grotto, Ireland it made pecific references to the Medjugorje apparitions:

The bible seems to predict something close to the truth, we ought to have a healty respect for the demon behind them since their purpose is to mislead even the chosen.. We should be grounded in the Truth or we find ourselves hypnotized by the messages and thereby becoming a source of misguidance and error and stumbling block for others.

No where does Jesus do anything in secret but he was very open..yet these appraitions tell secrets and keep people from God Word to read it for themselves.
Not once does any of these apparitions of Mary even mention the name of Jesus.

 

[SantoSubito]

The phenomenon was called the "Dance of the Sun" or the Miracle of the Sun. This also happened at many locations of Marian apparitions, from Medjugorje, Bosnia, to Lubbock, Texas and Conyers, Georgia, in the US. In Sabana Grande, Pueto Rico. This was the "Medjugorje: The Lasting Sign, a video narrated by Martin Sheen. Directed by Rob Wallace and produced by Cinematic Visions, Inc. 1989.

These seemsto be admirable, even mind-boggling feats for the apparitions to perform in order to guarantee that they are whom they claim to be, but identifying oneself as Mary does not make someone Mary, and identifying oneself as Jesus Christ does not make someone Jesus Christ. Offering a crucifix to someone does not prove divine origins, and sprinkling a vision with holy water does not force a demon to speak truthfully. Commanding an apparition to leave if it not Mary is completely useless as the method for discerning spirits, and making the sun come down to earth while 70,000 people look on is truly fascinating, but it doesn't prove a thing about the origins of the apparition. It only proves that it exists. But even if something looks like Mary, acts like Mary and says it is Mary, all of the claims, miracles and cures don't mean anythin it is isn't really her.

Jesus warned: Take heed that ye be ot decrived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them." Luke 21:8, Matthew 24:4,5

When the apparition of Mary appeared to the children of Melleray Crotto, Ireland in 1985, it said, "I will show myself to more people in more places." and when it appeared again in Bessbrook Grotto, Ireland it made pecific references to the Medjugorje apparitions:

The bible seems to predict something close to the truth, we ought to have a healty respect for the demon behind them since their purpose is to mislead even the chosen.. We should be grounded in the Truth or we find ourselves hypnotized by the messages and thereby becoming a source of misguidance and error and stumbling block for others.

Which falls under what I said originally. The apparitions were either demonic or God-sent. Of course Evangelicals and Protestants in general are going to say it's demonic, since the apparitions always support Catholic practices. But what I find is that Evangelicals usually affirm the existence of the supernatural, but deny that these same supernatural figures can appear to man.

No where does Jesus do anything in secret but he was very open..yet these appraitions tell secrets and keep people from God Word to read it for themselves.
Not once does any of these apparitions of Mary even mention the name of Jesus.

Not true, all of the apparitions of Mary refer to "my son" and "his suffering" at some point. I'm not sure if the apparitions explicitly reference Jesus by name, but I do know that they reference Christ,

 

[zone]

there is not one physical church that has the true teachings,because god has blinded their eyes,because of their heart, is not right before God.

oh my.
here we go again.

but a few people huddled around a kitchen table have the true teachings: by special revelation.

 

[VRJ]

At the name of Jesus............every knee will bow. Jesus is the name that is not mentioned. Say, I'm not here to be hateful to anyone, I'm just hoping what I present will show others to look for this on ones own. Whether they do or not is up to the individual. That is all one can do is open to another that one need to see another view. Many of us here grew up with very deep religious views and family ties with the same views. Trying to open another view is hard but I think worth getting mocked at if that view seems to be in Truth.

 

[_Centurion_]

Re: Roman Catholic?, claimed but not anymore

Hi,

Im agnostic, but I was baptised and recieved first communion in the catholic faith. As my father died shortly after I "became" prodestant. It did take long for the fact to become apparent despite following the same God, book, teaching and fundemental beliefs. The two faiths, hated each other, although the catholics more correctly condescended to the prodestants.

It is exactly the kind of bickering, hateful discourse that high lighted a fundemental hypocracy between the churches I attended. The hypocracy, of proclaiming a belief in scripture and such behaviour, fundamentlly and directly led to agbostism.

You are meant to love your enemies, you should at least tolerate your brothers and sister.


This thread, has been posatively painful for me to read. And if anything strengthens my agnostic views, if not in God, who would be above your sqquabbling, although baby Jesus is probaly crying, certain in regards to any religion.

Thankfully, Im still left with the small consalation that the kingdom heaven reside within me, even I no knowledge of its location.

Shame.

Oh yeah, your as entitled to your opinions as I am.

 

[pickles]

Re: Roman Catholic?, claimed but not anymore

Hi,

Im agnostic, but I was baptised and recieved first communion in the catholic faith. As my father died shortly after I "became" prodestant. It did take long for the fact to become apparent despite following the same God, book, teaching and fundemental beliefs. The two faiths, hated each other, although the catholics more correctly condescended to the prodestants.

It is exactly the kind of bickering, hateful discourse that high lighted a fundemental hypocracy between the churches I attended. The hypocracy, of proclaiming a belief in scripture and such behaviour, fundamentlly and directly led to agbostism.

You are meant to love your enemies, you should at least tolerate your brothers and sister.


This thread, has been posatively painful for me to read. And if anything strengthens my agnostic views, if not in God, who would be above your sqquabbling, although baby Jesus is probaly crying, certain in regards to any religion.

Thankfully, Im still left with the small consalation that the kingdom heaven reside within me, even I no knowledge of its location.

Shame.

Oh yeah, your as entitled to your opinions as I am.

Thankyou for an honest responce.
One does wonder where the witness to Jesus has gone.
If you take anything from what you have read, take comfort that Jesus suffered because we are weak and full of sin.
Take comfort, that your eyes are called to Jesus, rather than the actions of man.
One of my favorate scriptures is, be still and know that I am God!
I hope you find that which is the whole gift in Jesus.

God bless.
pickles

 

[kujo313]

So... You are aware that when you pray the rosary, you're meditating on the mysteries of Jesus right? You know, the parts of Jesus' life such as the Agony in the Gardenn of Gethsemene, the Scourging at the Pillar, the Carrying of the Cross, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, etc... The rosary is focused on Jesus, it's all about meditating on what He did for us.

We can meditate on those things without saying "hail mary's". We can boldly go to God, Himself. We don't NEED any prayer beads. We can simply praise and worship Jesus out loud for what He did for us.

 

[VRJ]

Many other religions use string beads in their worship. I believe it is the Muslims...I sat across from a person with a turban on praying with string beads on an airplane and was very nervous all the way.

The bible says:

Matthew 6:7; "But when ye pray use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

I Timothy 4:1; "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

SALVATION IS A FREE GIVE....YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR IT.

John 17:17; "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

 

[David_1]

I guess you could say they learn from the ones who started it. It was the roman church who ruled with an iron thumb with hatred and disdain for everyone who did not agree with them. I guess its alright when you did it. But not ok for everyone else? One could say your getting back what you did for over 1000 years.

The funny thing is most people are NOT hating on you. I have a muslim family that lives next door. And a wonderful catholic family on the other side. I do not hate either one of them. We bbq all the time, and spend alot of time together. We disagree on things, much like we do on here. The difference is they do not say I hate them because I disagree with them. Nor do I hate them because they disagree with me.

The roman church is the only church I know of (extremist islam is getting just as bad) who does the following to all who disagree with them.

1. Say they protest the church
2. They are not part of the true church
3. They hate us
4. They are trying to convert us


I could go on and on.

You claim we all hate. Maybe you should look in the mirror, And you can see where alot of the anger against your church comes from.

I am not angry. I just love discussing Gods word. Oh wait I forgot. We should not do that and leave that the the experts. (rolls eyes)

I'm not Catholic or Orthodox.

I really don't care if you feel justified in hating because someone else did it first.

 

[dscherck]

We can meditate on those things without saying "hail mary's". We can boldly go to God, Himself. We don't NEED any prayer beads. We can simply praise and worship Jesus out loud for what He did for us.

You're absolutely right in that we don't NEED them. You could be a very good Catholic and never once say the Rosary. That said, for those who do find spiritual benefit in the Rosary, why deny them that? They are meditating on the life of Our Lord, what is so objectionable about that?

 

[dscherck]

Many other religions use string beads in their worship. I believe it is the Muslims...I sat across from a person with a turban on praying with string beads on an airplane and was very nervous all the way.

The bible says:

Matthew 6:7; "But when ye pray use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

Good thing the Rosary doesn't fall under "vain" repetitions then.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Good thing the Rosary doesn't fall under "vain" repetitions then.

Let's see...

Apostles' Creed
"Our Father".
"Hail Mary" x3.
Rub-a-dub.
Meditate Mystery.
"Our Father".
"Hail Mary" x3.
Rub-a-dub.
Meditate Mystery.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat... for other 18 mysteries.

Same thing next time.
And next.
And next.
Ad infinitum.

Vain? Check.
Repetition? Check.
Much speaking? Check.

Now we're off to confess our sins to a man for absolution and penance.
Then on to some idolatrous veneration of a few dead folks to reverence man.
Check out all the graven image statues to remember their names.

Chant with me... "My Father plays Dominoes bettter than your Father."
Wait. Start over. I forgot to cross myself. Head. Crotch. Armpit. Armpit.

Bring on the written prayers and the sermonette about cultural current events.