"Not by works" - false!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#1,381
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#1,381
Judges1318 said:
Ask the Bible translators.
Some connect it to vs. 2 while others connect it to vs. 7 and 14.
In either way of translating it, you have to keep believing what Paul taught in order to be saved.


True, but how does this negate the fact that you have to keep believing the gospel to be saved?
It doesn't, of course.
You haven't lifted a finger, that I know of, to explain this to the Freegrace osas people in this forum.
Instead you just keep high-fiving them and applauding yourselves for believing in osas, even though you have little agreement with them in your osas beliefs.
Click to expand...


Have I read this correct

Why would a believer/follower of Jesus..have to keep believing the gospel to be saved?

To me that doesn’t make sense....the Holy Spirit has taken up residence in our spirit....he has testified to our spirit that we are his child....?.....once saved you automatically know....in your heart.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#1,382
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#1,382
jackrosie said:
I don’t understand how a true born again can be faithless....when they have the Holy Spirit residing in their heart......?

If they are faithless...then they never had faith to start with.
Click to expand...
All Christians are faithless at one time or another....you cheat on your taxes out of fear for your well-being. You look at other people with lust and covetousness. You watch the new socially acceptable pornography on Netflix and other places. All the while believing that Christ is the Messiah and has forgiven your sins.

But that is far different than casting belief and trust in Christ's forgiveness itself aside in contempt of the free gift you have received and purposely going back to your old life in unbelief. That is how a person 'gives back' the free gift they have received. They trample on it in contempt and no longer rely on it for the forgiveness of their sins and go back to the life that God had once cleansed them from.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#1,383
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#1,383
jackrosie said:
Have I read this correct

Why would a believer/follower of Jesus..have to keep believing the gospel to be saved?
Click to expand...
Because that's how you access the free gift--through faith in the free gift.
That's how the continuing ministry of Christ in heaven is continually applied to you here on earth.

jackrosie said:
To me that doesn’t make sense....the Holy Spirit has taken up residence in our spirit....he has testified to our spirit that we are his child....?.....once saved you automatically know....in your heart.
Click to expand...
Knowing you're a child of God is not the issue.
Whether you go back to unbelief or not is the issue.
What do we do with all the exhortations and warnings in scripture to keep believing?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#1,384
#1,384
jackrosie said:
Have I read this correct

Why would a believer/follower of Jesus..have to keep believing the gospel to be saved?

To me that doesn’t make sense....the Holy Spirit has taken up residence in our spirit....he has testified to our spirit that we are his child....?.....once saved you automatically know....in your heart.
Click to expand...
Just and fyi... this person has been doing this for years.

He is looking to persuade those weak in the faith and I can see you are not. Amen:)

Sometimes people should not be given an audience... just trying to save you some aggravation. :)

Matt. 19:25-26 - "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, WHO THEN
CAN BE SAVED?

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE; but with God all things are possible."

@Judges1318 thinks he can do what only God can do.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#1,385
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#1,385
EleventhHour said:
Just and fyi... this person has been doing this for years.

He is looking to persuade those weak in the faith and I can see you are not. Amen:)

Sometimes people should not be given an audience... just trying to save you some aggravation. :)

Matt. 19:25-26 - "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, WHO THEN
CAN BE SAVED?

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE; but with God all things are possible."

@Judges1318 thinks he can do what only God can do.
Click to expand...


This gal ain’t weak in faith.....thank you sister........I must admit when I was a new babe...I tried to do everything in my strength....it was a real hard lesson to learn......but the one thing I learnt from it....we can do nothing in our own strength...we are nothing without God..
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#1,386
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#1,386
jackrosie said:
He can say what he likes....but I don’t have to agree with him.....a born again can never lose their salvation...I certainly won’t argue over it.........God gave me that truth to my spirit and no one will ever convince me otherwise....
Click to expand...
And that's fine. I'll let anybody believe what they want and not try to suppress their beliefs or try to keep people from talking to you. Even though that is what some try to do around here. Jesus never did that.

If you want some friendly, non-combative discussion, I will show you why I believe what I do about osas (something made me finally get off the fence about it). I respect your right to believe what you want to believe, and I trust you respect mine as well.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#1,387
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#1,387
Judges1318 said:
Because that's how you access the free gift--through faith in the free gift.
That's how the continuing ministry of Christ in heaven is continually applied to you here on earth.


Knowing you're a child of God is not the issue.
Whether you go back to unbelief or not is the issue.
What do we do with all the exhortations and warnings in scripture to keep believing?
Click to expand...

I am afraid your teaching is alien to me.....so I will leave you to it...I mean that “respectfully “....have a good day.
 
FrankChatter

FrankChatter

Banned
#1,388
May 29, 2020
312
142
43
#1,388
Judges1318 said:
Notice that the condition for them to be saved is not that Christ really is risen from the dead, but rather that they stick to the gospel they heard.

"1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

.
Click to expand...
The context is that some among them were questioning the resurrection, he is saying if there is no resurrection the their faith would be in vain if it did not happen. That's why he right after the above he repeats to them what he had previously preached to the regarding the resurrection.


For I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#1,389
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#1,389
jackrosie said:
I am afraid your teaching is alien to me.....so I will leave you to it...I mean that “respectfully “....have a good day.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm well aware of how non-osas is alien to osas believers.
Most Christians simply are not exposed to any other way to look at scripture outside of what they've been taught. And so they think their way is the only way. I'm not saying that condescendingly. It's just the way it is in the church.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#1,391
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#1,391
FrankChatter said:
The context is that some among them were questioning the resurrection, he is saying if there is no resurrection the their faith would be in vain if it did not happen. That's why he right after the above he repeats to them what he had previously preached to the regarding the resurrection.


For I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what the passage says.
But that does not negate the fact that he said you are saved if you stick to the original message.
He specifically made that point, besides making the point that you aren't saved if Christ didn't really rise from the dead.
You have to keep believing to keep being saved.
Whether or not Christ has really risen from the dead does not change that.

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you (not just that Christ is really risen from the dead)." - 1 Corinthians 15:2 Parenthesis mine
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#1,393
Jul 3, 2015
60,133
29,444
113
#1,393
Micaiah-imla said:
2 Peter 1:5,10 KJV
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith ...[10] ...give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall
Click to expand...
That did not answer the question AT ALL. Here it is again:

Does "adding to our faith" increase our chance of salvation or does one with no works become unsaved despite what 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 states? If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#1,396
Apr 18, 2017
6,892
3,633
113
#1,396
Micaiah-imla said:
If that scripture did not answer your question, then I can do no better.

Sorry.
Click to expand...
@Micaiah-imla - the “works” that you’re trying to make the saved believer accountable for STILL are NOT our works. They are the “works of the Holy Spirit” within us.

We are to manifest the Fruit of the Holy Spirit - It IS the Holy Spirit in us now.

ALL we do is BELIEVE BY FAITH IN THE WORKS OF CHRIST AND RECEIVE SALVATION AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT by so doing we are saved and have fruit in our lives.

We cooperate with God’s Word and Holy Spirit- THEY are the HEAVY LIFTERS - TOGETHER THE WORD AND SPIRIT DO IT ALL!!!!

God is perfect - His Word and Spirit in us perfects us, amen. Hallelujah!

We can’t mess it up! Wooohooo! :love:(y)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#1,397
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#1,397
FrankChatter said:
The context is that some among them were questioning the resurrection, he is saying if there is no resurrection the their faith would be in vain if it did not happen. That's why he right after the above he repeats to them what he had previously preached to the regarding the resurrection.


For I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings.
Click to expand...
The poster you are addressing has no concept of context.....nor scriptural integrity....!
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#1,398
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#1,398
Not being saved by works is also scriptural.

EPHESIANS 2:8:9.

For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith-and this is not from yourselves,it is the gift of God-not by works,so that no one can boast.
For we are God’s workmanship,created in Christ Jesus to do good works,which God prepared in advance for us to do.
 
R

Reformyourself

Guest
#1,399
#1,399
jackrosie said:
I can’t answer for others.....for me....I have been extremely disobedient in an area....I did it because I was a new babe....I didn’t understand what was happening....I became extremely ill......I was bed ridden for 3 yrs.......now.......would I be purposely disobedient to God......you must be joking....I learnt my lesson..
Click to expand...
Be careful of being too honest...they will turn and rend you 🤪
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#1,400
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#1,400
Reformyourself said:
Be careful of being too honest...they will turn and rend you 🤪
Click to expand...

That is what I believed at the time..Reformyourself.........I have been thinking a lot about that..since I posted it.

I can actually remember hardening my heart up to something that God showed me.....i was a new babe and what he showed me was alien to me at the time I didn’t understand it.

So I guess over time without me even realising it....God softened my heart in that area......now I welcome what he showed me......so maybe I wasn’t being disobedient.

For me my journey with God.....has been an amazing walk.......developing a relationship with him over 28 yrs.....I am so close to him in spirit.....I couldn’t live without him.

Sorry to those who don’t understand what I say.......if I sound foolish I don’t mind..........I love being a fool for the Lord.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.