Re: Thread On Catholic And Other Religions

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Bede said:
The argument that I am following is the one about my claim:
No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts scripture (properly interpreted).
Click to expand...
The Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic doctrine asserting that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was preserved from the effects of Original Sin from the first moment of her conception. The doctrine was defined as a dogma binding on Catholics by Pope Pius IX in the papal bull Ineffabilis Deus (1854).

The Bible says nothing whatsoever to support the hypothesis, nor are there any 1st century traditions or oral teachings on the matter.

Scripture verses that stand in opposition:

Romans 3:23
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

1 John 1:8
If any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Luke 1:47
"My spirit rejoices in God my savior," (as spoken by Mary herself).
 
Dino246 said:
Since there is ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS in Scripture of such a fantasy, it is unbiblical. It doesn't need to "contradict" Scripture for it to qualify as hogwash. Even the phrase, "original sin" doesn't appear in Scripture, again allowing the Catholics to weasel out of the allegation.
Click to expand...

Shouting "ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS in Scripture of such a fantasy, it is unbiblical" does not disprove my claim.

Dino246 said:
However, the immaculate conception does contradict Scripture: Romans 3:23.
Click to expand...

No that doesn't contradict the doctrine of the Immacualte Conception since it's not addressing original sin but personal sin.
 
Reformyourself said:
Luke 1:46
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
Mary needed a Saviour
Click to expand...
I believe she may have received entire sanctification prior to, or at the point of conceiving Jesus though.
However, St bede,
The gospel says that Mary thought Jesus was ‘out of his mind’ at a certain point in His ministry & He virtually disowned her...
 
Bede said:
No that doesn't contradict the doctrine of the Immacualte Conception since it's not addressing original sin but personal sin.
Click to expand...
The Encyclical Mystici Corporis from Pope Pius XII (1943) holds that Mary was also sinless personally, "free from all sin, original or personal."
 
Magenta said:
The Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic doctrine asserting that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was preserved from the effects of Original Sin from the first moment of her conception. The doctrine was defined as a dogma binding on Catholics by Pope Pius IX in the papal bull Ineffabilis Deus (1854).

The Bible says nothing whatsoever to support the hypothesis, nor are there any 1st century traditions or oral teachings on the matter.

Scripture verses that stand in opposition:

Romans 3:23
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

1 John 1:8
If any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Luke 1:47
"My spirit rejoices in God my savior," (as spoken by Mary herself).
Click to expand...

None of those verses contradict the dogma.

The first two are addressing personal sin not original sin.

The last one harmonises with the dogma.
Mary says God is her saviour.
The dogma says she was saved (using you quote) by God
"in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved [saved] free from all stain of original sin",
 
Reformyourself said:
I believe she may have received entire sanctification prior to, or at the point of conceiving Jesus though.
However, St bede,
The gospel says that Mary thought Jesus was ‘out of his mind’ at a certain point in His ministry & He virtually disowned her...
Click to expand...
That is true :) Jesus did not elevate Mary above any other, not even for having borne Him.

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out,
“Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Luke 11:27-28
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rosemaryx
Magenta said:
That is true :) Jesus did not elevate Mary above any other, not even for having borne Him.

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out,
“Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Luke 11:27-28
Click to expand...

Yet another topic.
 
Bede said:
Shouting "ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS in Scripture of such a fantasy, it is unbiblical" does not disprove my claim.
Click to expand...
You're right; shouting (by itself) proves nothing. However, you're standing on thin air.

Bede said:
No that doesn't contradict the doctrine of the Immacualte Conception since it's not addressing original sin but personal sin.
Click to expand...
Like I said, weasel words.
 
When someone splatters all kinds of supposed "errors" across a thread it rather implies they don't want a serious discussion on a topic.
 
Bede said:
None of those verses contradict the dogma.

The first two are addressing personal sin not original sin.

The last one harmonises with the dogma.
Mary says God is her saviour.
The dogma says she was saved (using you quote) by God
"in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved [saved] free from all stain of original sin",
Click to expand...
The dogma is wrong...scripture should not be added to. I was r c too-now I’m a Bible reader
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
Magenta said:
Since Jesus did not elevate Mary in any way while the Catholic church clearly does, it seems rather pertinent to the topic.
Click to expand...

Whether Jesus elevated Mary or not, and whether Mary was personally sinless, are different topics to the Immaculate Conception.
 
Bede said:
Whether Jesus elevated Mary or not, and whether Mary was personally sinless, are different topics to the Immaculate Conception.
Click to expand...
The topic as you defined it is whether or not Catholic doctrine aligns with or contradicts Scripture.

Despite your protestations to the contrary ;) I quoted you ver batim.

Scripture also states:

people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.

Catholic dogma/doctrine states Mary did not die. This is not found in Scripture.
 
My battery is running out. Let’s pick this up tomorrow please bede. We’ll go through the Gospels together-my version versus your version
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back