The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
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yes and know remember an interpretation is not a translation tongues and interpretation are the same as prophesying they are equal as it says in 1cor 14 Prophesying is not speaking Prophetically but speaking inspirationally a word of CONFIRMATION many do not understand this point those who are against tongues and interpretation think one is adding to the word of God , they are not.
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Fact is that Paul never told anyone to speak in tongues. Paul said not to forbid tongues but there is not conclusive definition of what constitutes those tongues. They were likely languages common to the region. Corinth was a cross roads and many folks from around the area passed through to sell or buy the goods available.
You are quick to call others liars but in fact your veracity if oft in question. None the less it is not a wise thing to make such accusations as you do not know the hearts of those you verbally assault. The tongue set on fire in James.
May God give you heart fit for repentance.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are quick to call others liars but in fact your veracity if oft in question. None the less it is not a wise thing to make such accusations as you do not know the hearts of those you verbally assault. The tongue set on fire in James.
May God give you heart fit for repentance.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I am not disagreeing at all. I definitely would think it is wise to utilize the Gift of Tongues during Spiritual Warfare.
But most of my answers wrapped around Garee's interpretation of the Bible being the Tongues of God. It was such a different approach because I think he's tying it in with Speaking in Tongues.
Still waiting on him to be more definitive.
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That is lie from the pit . Paul taught all the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12. . No conclusive definition huh? wrong!
You were shown this in 1cor chapter 12 to 14
IF you have tried reading the Book of Acts, Paul and Peter were Eye witnesses to what the Holy Spirit did as normative of the those were Baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues and prophesied. the House of Cornelius and the disciples in Acts 19. Yes I do call a person who has lied a liar and I am pointing it out to you again and those here in this thread, know full well from past discussions on this topic. which I will be happy to show you if you are lacking the ability to remember. I will yet again note you have not used any scriptural support only your opinion.
I have provided repeatedly for you many scriptural references to 1. the Filling of the Holy Spirit, 2.Baptism of the Holy Spirit 3. Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Luke 4:1
Mark 16:17
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:38
Acts 19:6
1cor 1:5
1cor chapters 12-14
yep tongues of fire amen. Yours have been one of mockery, scoffing and untrufulness.
you should be a shamed.
You were shown this in 1cor chapter 12 to 14
IF you have tried reading the Book of Acts, Paul and Peter were Eye witnesses to what the Holy Spirit did as normative of the those were Baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues and prophesied. the House of Cornelius and the disciples in Acts 19. Yes I do call a person who has lied a liar and I am pointing it out to you again and those here in this thread, know full well from past discussions on this topic. which I will be happy to show you if you are lacking the ability to remember. I will yet again note you have not used any scriptural support only your opinion.
I have provided repeatedly for you many scriptural references to 1. the Filling of the Holy Spirit, 2.Baptism of the Holy Spirit 3. Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Luke 4:1
Mark 16:17
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:38
Acts 19:6
1cor 1:5
1cor chapters 12-14
yep tongues of fire amen. Yours have been one of mockery, scoffing and untrufulness.
you should be a shamed.
2 things:
1. I used it in quotes to encompass some views I have heard, which I was paraphrasing.
2. I used it in terms of "unintelligible speech" Which speaking in tongues is, to the human mind. It is not unintelligible to God. I was addressing man, so I used his frame of reference.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
1. I used it in quotes to encompass some views I have heard, which I was paraphrasing.
2. I used it in terms of "unintelligible speech" Which speaking in tongues is, to the human mind. It is not unintelligible to God. I was addressing man, so I used his frame of reference.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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This is a non salvific issue so there is no need to debate until this extreme where people start calling each other liars and such.
If you believe praying in that heavenly language is beneficial to you, go ahead and keep doing it.
if you believe it has ceased with the bible being completed, that is fine too. Paul showed a more excellent way by pursing faith hope and love.
Either way, salvation is still be based on 1 Cor 15:1-4
If you believe praying in that heavenly language is beneficial to you, go ahead and keep doing it.
if you believe it has ceased with the bible being completed, that is fine too. Paul showed a more excellent way by pursing faith hope and love.
Either way, salvation is still be based on 1 Cor 15:1-4
Its a principle. tongue = word.
Like the words the Holy Spirit gave to David.
Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Our new tongue the gospel his word it as good news to gospel. It can cast out demons as lying spirits
No such thing as "sign gift" .The gift of wonderment or marveling . Not evidence of the Holy Spirit .But evidence a person made a sound without meaning. Causing others to wonder also
Spiritual gifts not seen , yes all remain.
His word as prophecy is true.
There is no need to make prophecy into senseless sounds as mocking the tongue of God. The foundation in Isaiah 28 must be understand by revisiting the law in 1 Corinthians 14 :22-23
God Wants to Help His People
Isaiah 28:11-14 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.
In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds[c] to them:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
Like the words the Holy Spirit gave to David.
Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Our new tongue the gospel his word it as good news to gospel. It can cast out demons as lying spirits
No such thing as "sign gift" .The gift of wonderment or marveling . Not evidence of the Holy Spirit .But evidence a person made a sound without meaning. Causing others to wonder also
Spiritual gifts not seen , yes all remain.
His word as prophecy is true.
There is no need to make prophecy into senseless sounds as mocking the tongue of God. The foundation in Isaiah 28 must be understand by revisiting the law in 1 Corinthians 14 :22-23
God Wants to Help His People
Isaiah 28:11-14 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.
In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds[c] to them:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
Yes, I’m aware that some countries have more than one language and even dialects that are radically different from each other.
That said (and I'm simplifying things a bit here), I think if you do a study on the languages spoken by the first century Jewish communities, you’ll find that the language of ‘hearth and home’ in the two Diasporan areas did not differ from place to place. In the Eastern Diaspora, Jews held on to Aramaic – it was the most outward sign of their cultural and religious identity. In the Western Diaspora, it was Greek across the board; in particular, the Jews seem to have adopted the Koiné dialect as their mother tongue. In the West you could still be culturally and religiously "Jewish" and not speak Aramaic. Just the result of the process of Hellenization and its acceptance in that part of the world.
Yes, a lot of places over a wide area of land; but in the Diaspora, the language of the Jewish community was relatively homogenous; Aramaic and Greek. Sure, in the Western Diaspora people spoke the local languages in varying degrees of fluency (in the East there was just one – Greek), but they were never the language of 'hearth and home'; that was reserved for Aramaic. The Eastern Diaspora had it easier as there was just one language; Greek.
The bottom line here is that in the Jewish community of the first century, with respect to languages people were “born into”, linguistic diversity just wasn’t part of the picture. That’s just fact.
I’m not contradicting scripture; I’m not changing anything that isn’t already there. Rather, looking at what’s there in a fresher light taking into account historical and linguistic perspectives which offer new insight to the narratives. Some of that insight is radically different than the ‘status quo’.
That said (and I'm simplifying things a bit here), I think if you do a study on the languages spoken by the first century Jewish communities, you’ll find that the language of ‘hearth and home’ in the two Diasporan areas did not differ from place to place. In the Eastern Diaspora, Jews held on to Aramaic – it was the most outward sign of their cultural and religious identity. In the Western Diaspora, it was Greek across the board; in particular, the Jews seem to have adopted the Koiné dialect as their mother tongue. In the West you could still be culturally and religiously "Jewish" and not speak Aramaic. Just the result of the process of Hellenization and its acceptance in that part of the world.
Yes, a lot of places over a wide area of land; but in the Diaspora, the language of the Jewish community was relatively homogenous; Aramaic and Greek. Sure, in the Western Diaspora people spoke the local languages in varying degrees of fluency (in the East there was just one – Greek), but they were never the language of 'hearth and home'; that was reserved for Aramaic. The Eastern Diaspora had it easier as there was just one language; Greek.
The bottom line here is that in the Jewish community of the first century, with respect to languages people were “born into”, linguistic diversity just wasn’t part of the picture. That’s just fact.
I’m not contradicting scripture; I’m not changing anything that isn’t already there. Rather, looking at what’s there in a fresher light taking into account historical and linguistic perspectives which offer new insight to the narratives. Some of that insight is radically different than the ‘status quo’.
The examples you gave are all modern translations based on one original English version (likely the KJB).
The traditional view is that 'akarpos' must be taken in the passive sense" "my mind/understanding is unfruitful (to/for me).
Indeed, that's the only way it can be taken if you don't want the speaker to understand what he's saying.
What I'm pointing out is that the word can also be taken in the active sense of "my mind/understanding is unfruitful (for others).
This is not a new concept; it's at least 500 years old as evidenced in Luther's Bible. Indeed, an active meaning seems to fit more in line with Paul's calling for clarity and understanding.
Yes, Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. I imagine he used his knowledge of languages (though he really only needed two, maybe three) considerably more than his congregation when he went on his missions to preach to the Gentiles - no modern tongues-speech here; just real, rational languages.
The traditional view is that 'akarpos' must be taken in the passive sense" "my mind/understanding is unfruitful (to/for me).
Indeed, that's the only way it can be taken if you don't want the speaker to understand what he's saying.
What I'm pointing out is that the word can also be taken in the active sense of "my mind/understanding is unfruitful (for others).
This is not a new concept; it's at least 500 years old as evidenced in Luther's Bible. Indeed, an active meaning seems to fit more in line with Paul's calling for clarity and understanding.
Yes, Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. I imagine he used his knowledge of languages (though he really only needed two, maybe three) considerably more than his congregation when he went on his missions to preach to the Gentiles - no modern tongues-speech here; just real, rational languages.
Are you so blinded to the truth that you cannot see what God has written? Timothy was never instructed to behave badly lie the Corinthians. Tongues in Acts are for an evidence of the Holy Spirit regenerating sinners into saints. No one in Acts save possibly Peter was speaking in tongues in any sort of teaching or evangelizing fashion. Apart from what Peter said at Pentecost we have nothing recorded of what was said. Peter was simply explaining what was going on so that going forward the circumcision would see and know what was happening.
There is nothing in Corinthians recorded as to what anyone said or what anyone interpreted yet an interpreter was required to be present. Interpreters need to understand the language spoken to interpret it. That lets the air out of tongues being anything other than know languages. Many of them were present in Corinth as is evidenced by historical records.
You keep stirring up unrelated and nonspecific scriptures that do not apply to the point you are endeavoring to make. Simply stating that the Holy Spirit fills believers and that the Holy Spirit baptizes men unto eternal life does not address the point. The Holy Spirit administrates the gifts of the Holy Spirit in strict accordance with the word of God. I happen to believe the bible and understand the subject from that viewpoint. A viewpoint that you do not share.
Isiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
Isn't it ironic but liars are quick to label everyone else liars?
May God give you space to repent.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There is nothing in Corinthians recorded as to what anyone said or what anyone interpreted yet an interpreter was required to be present. Interpreters need to understand the language spoken to interpret it. That lets the air out of tongues being anything other than know languages. Many of them were present in Corinth as is evidenced by historical records.
You keep stirring up unrelated and nonspecific scriptures that do not apply to the point you are endeavoring to make. Simply stating that the Holy Spirit fills believers and that the Holy Spirit baptizes men unto eternal life does not address the point. The Holy Spirit administrates the gifts of the Holy Spirit in strict accordance with the word of God. I happen to believe the bible and understand the subject from that viewpoint. A viewpoint that you do not share.
Isiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
Isn't it ironic but liars are quick to label everyone else liars?
May God give you space to repent.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Is there a verse to support your claim? Or are you just batting the wind with your words?
God does say that to some His word will appear to be foolishness.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
May God give you space to repent.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God does say that to some His word will appear to be foolishness.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
May God give you space to repent.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The spiritual gift of an unlearned language, or "tongue", is used in two ways. One is for personal use to be edified, as in private prayer. It bypasses the intellect in that one is led by the Spirit, to worship God in an excellent way, but ones understanding is unfruitful. The other use is in a church setting, wherein it is given as a sign that when spoken aloud, brings attention that some words in the known language of the congregation is to follow. The gift can also have the gifted ability of interpretation, if prayed for.
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Are you really serious? No one here even suggested that Paul was instructing Timothy to acts badly. Again your bias is flaring up.
"No one in Acts save possibly Peter was speaking in tongues in any sort of teaching or evangelizing fashion. "
You do not know what you are talking about. Your comment is so unbiblical I'm wondering if you are just trolling?
Acts chapter two directly refutes your comment. Peter was not the only one speaking in tongues as the Holy Spirit gave the ability.
Acts 2 says they were all in one accord. it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Peter explained Joel chapter 2 when Peter was asked what does this mean the "this" is what just happens as the Holy Spirit empowered them to speak.
2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
In 1Corinthians chapters 12 through 14, Paul is in fact providing correction and instruction on how the Very Gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be used. You are not telling the truth and speaking in error. Read it.
"Non-specific" scriptures? Everyone here is waiting for you to provide just one scripture that says " The Gifts of Holy Spirit are not for today. Still waiting for proof they have been done away with.
You do not know anything about the gifts of the Holy Spirit because you are biased. You can't separate those who have done things foolishly from what God is still doing today.
You are untruthful and deceptive. Clearly, you are hateful and angry. I am sorry you were hurt by a person who was ignorant, unlearned, or in error. But you are not correct Biblically. FYI I am not trying to convince you, but expose your false narrative; I thank you for your confirmation in doing so.
Now you can continue to move even closer to insulting the Holy Spirit if you like.
I leave you to the Lord, were done.
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These are the very same scriptures that I have quoted to you to demonstrate that tongues are not for today. You simply interpret them from a heart that does not seek to know but a heart that has what it wants.
If you understood the scriptures you quoted you would see why you need to repent. Turn now before it's too late.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you understood the scriptures you quoted you would see why you need to repent. Turn now before it's too late.
For the cause of Christ
Roger