Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The just shall live by faith. We are not saved by works but by repentance, asking for forgiveness and being forgiven by the blood of the lamb.
Is that clear enough?
But your view of works being the outpouring (easy) effect is not biblical. “Work our your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Do you understand this? Does it mean works save us? No. But it certainly speaks volumes against the position of works just naturally (and painlessly) happen.
What it means is that we have to PURSUE peace and holiness with all men. It means we have to choose to keep his teaching so he and the father will come and dwell in us. It means we have to struggle ourselves against pride and selfishness within. If we think God will change us relieving us of humbling ourselves that we might receive grace, we’ll remain a baby christian allowing the same sin to have us all our lives. This is what I miss in the “holiness is something God painless to my pride does for me” view. The apostles struggled and WON against sin, some st least, interieur lives.
We must do the possible trusting Him to do the impossible.
Is that clear enough?
But your view of works being the outpouring (easy) effect is not biblical. “Work our your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Do you understand this? Does it mean works save us? No. But it certainly speaks volumes against the position of works just naturally (and painlessly) happen.
What it means is that we have to PURSUE peace and holiness with all men. It means we have to choose to keep his teaching so he and the father will come and dwell in us. It means we have to struggle ourselves against pride and selfishness within. If we think God will change us relieving us of humbling ourselves that we might receive grace, we’ll remain a baby christian allowing the same sin to have us all our lives. This is what I miss in the “holiness is something God painless to my pride does for me” view. The apostles struggled and WON against sin, some st least, interieur lives.
We must do the possible trusting Him to do the impossible.
You will find it difficult to get an intelligent answer regarding blantant sin in the lives of believers that one can acccept without some turning off the mind.
If a christian decides to murder, the possible answers for OSAS are:
was never saved judging by deeds done later in life
remains saved the same no matter what evil they do
That’s it. The concept of shipwrecking your faith, falling away from the faith, putting the hand to the plough but turning back or deciding on a course but realizing you changed your mind as the price is too high is not an option for them.
If a christian decides to murder, the possible answers for OSAS are:
was never saved judging by deeds done later in life
remains saved the same no matter what evil they do
That’s it. The concept of shipwrecking your faith, falling away from the faith, putting the hand to the plough but turning back or deciding on a course but realizing you changed your mind as the price is too high is not an option for them.
E
Was it because you did not have enough faith? If your mind was not renewed. Something was seriously wrong
If they ended their again. Did they have faith. I would say no
no faith. No salvation
He who began a good work in you will complete it. This is the promise of Gid
You focus to
Much on self. You should
Focus more on God, That’s why I also Tend to question your faith.
Stage? There is on stage. That is to have faith in Christ. At that stage he adopts you as his child and begin me to renew you on the inside and out
Remember he who began that work (at first stage). Will
Complete it
If they ended their again. Did they have faith. I would say no
no faith. No salvation
He who began a good work in you will complete it. This is the promise of Gid
You focus to
Much on self. You should
Focus more on God, That’s why I also Tend to question your faith.
Stage? There is on stage. That is to have faith in Christ. At that stage he adopts you as his child and begin me to renew you on the inside and out
Remember he who began that work (at first stage). Will
Complete it
Wow, every step you said about OSAS Christians, is absolutely TRUE from my experience, about those who want to WORK for they SALVATION, and that is FUTILE. The Multiple Evangelical type of Churches teach OBEDIENCE is a By-Product of LOVING HIM WITH AGAPE LOVE. I have never found an evangelical type of CHURCH that teaches it differently. I have been here almost three years, and most are Evangelicals. I go to a Conservative Evangelical Community Church that teaches OSAS. Look at how means pages we have had in the last for years. You seem to be almost a OSAS believer, incognito. LOL, either way you do not seem to be like the off the wall, disciples (only Followers), who think their OBEDIENCE EARNS THEIR RIGHT TO SALVATION. I have no problem talking to them about Obedience, but I always like it to the AGAPE LOVE that HE PUT IN OUR HEARTS. Salvation happens in an instant, and Sanctification takes a lifetime.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.
Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.
I think you got off on the wrong foot, and they perceived you as one teaching works Righteousness. We have had a LOT OF THEM, and their bad theology, gets very repetitive and sickening at times.
I need to figure where you are come from, so what type of Church do you attend ?
You believe a Christian has a sin nature in them, don't you?
I prefer to confront this will, who think they quite sinning:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
AND THAT IS THE one point of SIN, according to James 2:10, that makes you GUILTY OF ALL THE LAW.No quicker way to convince them they are still sinners, with a sin nature.
Dorothy,
I TOLD YOU, that response in red, is a TOTALLY FALSE STATEMENT, and NONE OF THE OSAS CHURCHES TEACH THAT LIE.
ONLY, from your imagination or someone like you, or SOMEONE who has not even BOTHERED to read the CHURCH's Doctrinal Statement of FAITH, would come up with that Statement. NO ONE WHO IS TRULY BORN AGAIN, OSAS GENUINE BELIEVER, would EVER come up with that ANSWER. That is purely an EVIL Statement, and I have been working to CORRECT that grievous ERROR, ever since I started on this THREAD. It appears YOU COUNT EVERYONE that goes to CHURCH as CHRISITANS, while we only count THOSE WHO HAVE the SPIRITUAL FRUIT to PROVE they are BORN AGAIN, Gal. 5:22-26, as BEING PART of US, who are OSAS TRUE BELIEVERS.
We believe the Believe BOTH ROADS in the Parable of the GATES only have on those two different Roads, disciples of Jesus Christ. Disciples does not mean SAVED, it only means FOLLOWERS. MANY OF THE FOLLOWERS are on the WRONG ROAD that leads to the Destruction of Hades/Hell. ONLY genuinely BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS came through the NARROW GATE, and ONLY FEW FIND IT, Mat. 7:13-16. The disciples that went through the WRONG GATE, most likely have fallen PREY to a False Teacher.
THUS THIS VERSE IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE:
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
I will post a Typical Doctrinal Statement of Faith, so you can see what I mean, on this and my NEXT POST. Every evangelical style of Church, will have one of these on their Website. Like I said we moved a lot in our Younger Years, so I would go to a likely Church, when we move to town, get a COPY of the Doctrinal Statement of Faith, go home and study it. Writing down a list of questions, I would like the PASTOR to answer, go to an interview, and if I was satisfied with HIS ANSWERS, THEN we would GO to Church there. NO DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH, was reason to not go to CHURCH THERE.
Statement of Faith
This doctrinal statement reflects the broad, mainstream, conservative evangelical tradition which is consistent with the teachings of the Bible and which has stood the test of history and experience. We specifically affirm the following doctrinal truths:
-
1
- Show all