I used to love Pastor John Piper, but does he believe in Lordship Salvation?

[Reformyourself]

Wesley went too far with his ideas on sanctification. He believed that Christians could be cleansed from original sin, or depravity ... could reach a point where they would no longer sin.
https://www.christiansforchrist.com/articles/theology/john-wesleys-doctrine-of-christian-perfection/
Aside: I would stay clear of Wesley's theology (not saying he all wrong, but he would be way down my preferred reading list)

Aquinas said “Those who enter the stage of perfection do not profess to be perfect, but to tend to perfection...hence a man who takes up the state of perfection is not guilty of lying or deceit through not being perfect, but through withdrawing his mind from the intention of reaching perfection”.

 

[Judges1318]

Or you can go to the web site of Bethlehem Baptist Church, where Piper was the Senior pastor, and has now retired.

When you check out their beliefs you see that they are trying for a compromise between Reformed Theology, Baptist beliefs, and Charismatic beliefs. No church can have such a mishmash without compromising Bible truth.

I find it interesting that even Calvinists don't recognize Piper's Calvinists beliefs.

 

[Kim82]

Some people cannot articulate clearly what they believe which may be a problem if they are trying to explain to someone else their faith.

Yes, you are so right.

Some people are not able to explain things properly, or to persuade others away from wrong doing.

Thankyou Yes. I ended up idolising Wesley, and had to repent/detox, but sometimes his words do cut through the heart y know?
P.S I believe in entire sanctification! (With men this is impossible, but with G_d, all things are possible). 😁

And if you are not careful, you will get depressed in your walk with God when you listen to misleading messages. Because if someone says as a Christian, if your life is not perfect, you're not saved. As Judges1318 said, it's a journey.

But the message that says you can live any kind of way is also wrong.

Salvation by grace is not an easy topic, that's why it causes so much arguments, and confusion.

 

[Reformyourself]

Yes, you are so right.

Some people are not able to explain things properly, or to persuade others away from wrong doing.

And if you are not careful, you will get depressed in your walk with God when you listen to misleading messages. Because if someone says as a Christian, if your life is not perfect, you're not saved. As Judges1318 said, it's a journey.

But the message that says you can live any kind of way is also wrong.

Salvation by grace is not an easy topic, that's why it causes so much arguments, and confusion.

Depressed OR delivered 😁

 

[Reformyourself]

Depressed OR delivered 😁

As soon as I read Wesley’s Christian perfection, I just knew it was attainable here & now. I’m not perfect btw, neither was Wesley (& think he predicted the end of world date) But I agree, we are all on a journey... running the race (I want the prize) 😁

 

[Kim82]

Depressed OR delivered 😁

If the message is misleading and you follow it, you will get depressed or frustrated.

 

[Reformyourself]

If the message is misleading and you follow it, you will get depressed or frustrated.

Or, if the message is from The Lord-delivered?

 

[Pulie]

You submit to Jesus as Lord BECAUSE you are saved, not in exchange for salvation.
Salvation changes a person into a person who loves Jesus and wants to serve him.
The person in whom Jesus is not Lord is not saved, their disobedience bearing witness to the absence of the Holy Spirit in their lives in salvation.

What do you think of the following statements:
"Once saved always saved"
"Works do not save you"
"Works have northing to do with salvation"
"Faith will save you"

 

[Judges1318]

What do you think of the following statements:
"Once saved always saved"

I reject it as an official doctrine that says any and all true believers will without exception never fall away.

I think the only believer who can make any kind of reasonable claim that they will never fall away would be the 4th type of soil believer in the Parable of the Sower. The 4th type of soil is the one in which Jesus said the word is retained and perseveres:

"15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:15

"Works do not save you"

Works have absolutely no power to earn a person a declaration of right standing before God.

"Works have northing to do with salvation"

Works have nothing to do with being justified (made righteous before God).
But they do have something to do with salvation in that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that works righteousness in a person:

"The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself through love." - Galatians 5:6 (parentheses mine)

If one's 'faith' does not find expression in the obedience of godly love, they probably don't have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Saving faith changes a person because it solicits the indwelling Holy Spirit. Works are the evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit in salvation. No changed/ changing life means no indwelling Holy Spirit is present to cause that change in a person.

"Faith will save you"

Faith apart from works is in fact the way through which a person is justified before God.
But it would be impossible to separate that faith from a life of works, and I think that's where the confusion comes in for some who think their 'faith that is alone' is the faith that saves.

 

[maryjohanna]

You do not know the definition of Lordship salvation, lol.

If you feel someone does not understand the definition than, why don't you help someone out and explain it to them kindly?

 

[Pulie]

I reject it as an official doctrine that says any and all true believers will without exception never fall away.

I think the only believer who can make any kind of reasonable claim that they will never fall away would be the 4th type of soil believer in the Parable of the Sower. The 4th type of soil is the one in which Jesus said the word is retained and perseveres:

"15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:15



Works have absolutely no power to earn a person a declaration of right standing before God.


Works have nothing to do with being justified (made righteous before God).
But they do have something to do with salvation in that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that works righteousness in a person:

"The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself through love." - Galatians 5:6 (parentheses mine)

If one's 'faith' does not find expression in the obedience of godly love, they probably don't have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Saving faith changes a person because it solicits the indwelling Holy Spirit. Works are the evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit in salvation. No changed/ changing life means no indwelling Holy Spirit is present to cause that change in a person.


Faith apart from works is in fact the way through which a person is justified before God.
But it would be impossible to separate that faith from a life of works, and I think that's where the confusion comes in for some who think their 'faith that is alone' is the faith that saves.

Thank you.

 

[Judges1318]

If you feel someone does not understand the definition than, why don't you help someone out and explain it to them kindly?

I did.

https://christianchat.com/threads/i...eve-in-lordship-salvation.192618/post-4271253

You just have to understand that 11th hour has been very antagonistic towards me about this matter of works and salvation.

 

[Kim82]

Works have nothing to do with being justified (made righteous before God).
But they do have something to do with salvation in that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that works righteousness in a person:

So the same faith that justifies apart from work, is the same faith that spurs on a believer to work. This is really deep. I've tried many times to explain this concept to myself, in order to explain to others also.

Harmonising the scripture is sometimes a challenge. Because in one place it clearly says, saved by grace. And in another place it says faith and works go together James 2:14.

But I've heard that James 2:14 is not referring to salvation.

 

[Kim82]

By work, I mean bear fruits.

 

[Judges1318]

So the same faith that justifies apart from work, is the same faith that spurs on a believer to work. This is really deep. I've tried many times to explain this concept to myself, in order to explain to others also.

Sister, you got it!
I couldn't have said it any better.

You're ready to share this truth.

 

[Kim82]

Actually I think, I need to study more on this issue

 

[Magenta]

Perfect means to be complete: we find our all-in-all in Him, as opposed to worldly pursuits.

 

[Pulie]

So the same faith that justifies apart from work, is the same faith that spurs on a believer to work. This is really deep. I've tried many times to explain this concept to myself, in order to explain to others also.

Harmonising the scripture is sometimes a challenge. Because in one place it clearly says, saved by grace. And in another place it says faith and works go together James 2:14.

But I've heard that James 2:14 is not referring to salvation.

What is the definition of salvation if James2:14 is not referring to it?
Is it not referring to faith apart from works or salvation as a whole?
Is salvation a process or an event?
Is justification, regeneration, sanctification etc separated from salvation?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Harmonising the scripture is sometimes a challenge. Because in one place it clearly says, saved by grace. And in another place it says faith and works go together James 2:14.

James is a difficult one to understand. I needed help to comprehend what seems at first to be contradictions. Maybe this will help.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-James.html#ixzz3ZAoN13qC

 

[Pulie]

What is the definition of salvation if James2:14 is not referring to it?
Is it not referring to faith apart from works or salvation as a whole?
Is salvation a process or an event?
Is justification, regeneration, sanctification etc separated from salvation?

Hey Kim
I responded to your post But the questions were directed to Judges1318. My bad. Please answer the questions @Judges1318