Goal or Gateway ? Empowering of the Holy Spirit

[wolfwint]

You can lie and attack all you want guys, I think you don't have the ability to understand the word of God. I don't have a definition. And the Historical context of the Holy Spirit and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with cults and Mormons.

You are a hypocrite. You say show me in the word of God and you will believe. The word of God was given now you want to talk about cults and Mormons. You have a serious issue guy. Just leave my thread alone ok because you are not very edifying and clearly you are just a hater.

You as Moderator can call me lier, hater, mocker and scoffer? If I do so. Then at least show me where I do it. Only because I do not agree with an doctrine which I cant find in the bible taught?
And it is not true. You did not show me an Single proof that this was taught.: Speaking in tongues as proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.
You showed me where speaking in tongues where taking place. But this was not my question!
If I am, what you are claim about me, then ban me.
And if you dont want that non tonguespeaker join your thread. Then please next time write this in your thread.

 

[Guojing]

what a copy out. Trying to clean up spill on Isle B. IT was you who falsely accused me of being part of a group I am not. It was you who falsely accused me of no faith.

"You must love Bethel Church and their music.
Yet Covid-19 continue to be around, it must be the lack of faith in the church er?"

it was not an interpretation because I did not even mention Bethel Church, you did. They have nothing to do with my post or thread .

So please don't try to patronize me just say you were wrong and move on and out of my thread Ok. That way You can to be the kind of troll you display regularly . Trust me we will be fine without your comments and input on this thread. Go start your own I will not follow you there.

Actually I said the church had no faith, I never said you lack faith, so I have no idea why you took that remark personally.

Anyway in this forum people have called me all sorts of names, including you, you used the term coward and you addressed it to me right?

If I were to go off the rails like you did, every time someone insults me, why participate in online discussions? 🤣

 

[lenna]

I have been praying about it I am tired of seeing myself in this way and I want to see what he sees not what I think or feel or believe but I just don't know how.
I suppose one of my greatest weaknesses is how I see myself and some may see it as being humble but there is a difference in being humble and just beating yourself up

I understand. Try Neil Anderson's book The Bondage Breaker. Was the turning point for me.

 

[lenna]

As you have correctly said, Perhaps the reason some oppose is because we know we are not the apostles?

I mean when God commanded Noah to build an ark, do you regard those instructions as directed to you too?

SMH

 

[CS1]

What do you think the role of signs and wonders in OT?

Could it be true that your own application is actually the unbiblical one?

The Holy Spirit came upon Kings, priest , Prophets, Judges , The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament did everything HE did in the NEW

Raise the dead, heal lepers, Spoke through Prophets. Performed signs and wonders.

 

[CS1]

Where exactly in acts 2?

look it up it has been posted you are so Biblically sound you should know where it is. Troll is what you have become.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I ask you all is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit a Goal or Gateway.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit should be seen as the gift of the Holy Spirit, given to each and every believer. That gift includes spiritual gifts. But to see the gift of the Spirit as a Gateway, we need to consider the words of Christ in Luke 4:

LUKE 4: THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT IS FOR MINISTRY TO OTHERS
14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

 

[CS1]

You as Moderator can call me lier, hater, mocker and scoffer? If I do so. Then at least show me where I do it. Only because I do not agree with an doctrine which I cant find in the bible taught?
And it is not true. You did not show me an Single proof that this was taught.: Speaking in tongues as proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.
You showed me where speaking in tongues where taking place. But this was not my question!
If I am, what you are claim about me, then ban me.
And if you dont want that non tonguespeaker join your thread. Then please next time write this in your thread.

Yes I am calling you mocker and scoffer and yes a liar too. Because you have lied and you have scoffed an mocked i'm sorry I have told the truth. It was already said many times you do not have to agree, and that is fine, however, you ask repeatedly the same questions that were answered. You don't accept them fine. But that does not mean you are right biblically. I have yet to see you post one Bible verse to support your understanding, not one.

We have quoted Acts chapter 1, 2, 3, 4 and others; we have quoted Peter , Paul and The Lord Jesus . You want media updates and FYI they were given to you but you did not agree I guess then you moved the goal post. I think you are just a troll you have nothing to offer.

Your pride and arrogance is telling. You were shown where the initial evidence that one has been empowered by the Holy Spirit. Each time where it is recorded in the Books Acts those who were Baptized in the Holy Spirit 1. were already saved 2. all spoke in tongues or Prophesied.
again read it :

Acts 2:38
Acts 8
Acts 10 &11
Acts 19

 

[CS1]

Where exactly in acts 2?

read it .

 

[CS1]

You as Moderator can call me lier, hater, mocker and scoffer? If I do so. Then at least show me where I do it. Only because I do not agree with an doctrine which I cant find in the bible taught?
And it is not true. You did not show me an Single proof that this was taught.: Speaking in tongues as proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.
You showed me where speaking in tongues where taking place. But this was not my question!
If I am, what you are claim about me, then ban me.
And if you dont want that non tonguespeaker join your thread. Then please next time write this in your thread.

You are not non-tonguespeaker you are a troll.

 

[Guojing]

The Holy Spirit came upon Kings, priest , Prophets, Judges , The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament did everything HE did in the NEW

Raise the dead, heal lepers, Spoke through Prophets. Performed signs and wonders.

You never answered my question. What is the role of signs and wonders in the OT?

Exodus 4 has a very clear explanation of that role.

 

[CS1]

Actually I said the church had no faith, I never said you lack faith, so I have no idea why you took that remark personally.

Anyway in this forum people have called me all sorts of names, including you, you used the term coward and you addressed it to me right?

If I were to go off the rails like you did, every time someone insults me, why participate in online discussions? 🤣

if those have called you names that is not right however, I do stand by my comments because you are dishonest. You were insulting I called you on it. You have nothing to offer. You just commented to create division. You lack civility and don't participate .

 

[CS1]

You never answered my question. What is the role of signs and wonders in the OT?

Exodus 4 has a very clear explanation of that role.

Do you study the word of God? I ask that respectfully. How about you tell me what you think the role of the Holy Spirit is in the Old Testament please then I will answer you again

 

[CS1]

to those who have understood the context of the goal or gateway The Baptism in the Holy Spirit and His gifting provide confirmation to the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus. That is very power witness.

 

[biker]

This is not the point. I am talking from the doctrine which we found since 1900. That speaking in tongues is the sign/proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.

To this point here, all throughout the Book of Acts, every time someone received the Holy Spirit it shows in the Book of Acts they also Spoke in Tongues. I think it is indeed a sign that if someone Speaks in Tongues after accepting Christ they have received the Holy Spirit. But I don't think that is the series of events for everyone who receives the Holy Spirit. They might cry, or might stammer their lips, or might just be overjoyed in God. But to say because it did happen in the Book of Acts it cannot happen now is foolishness. God's ways are higher than ours. We have no idea what God is doing in these "Last Days," we are just trying to keep our own noses clean.

This teaching you will not find out of cults. You will find it also not with the churchfathers. If you can Show, then please do it.

Some claim Mountain was a Cult Leader. But the Church Father Tertullian joined him and claimed to have Spoken in Tongues. And Tertullian is most credited for the "Trinity Idealism."
Tertullian : The Montanists
www.tertullian.org/montanism.htm
Tertullian fiercely attacks those who condemned the new prophecy, and in attacking the church authorities as more interested in their own political power in the church than in listening to the Spirit, he foreshadows the protestant reaction to papal claims. Eventually Montanism was condemned by the bishop of Rome, and the Montanists were pushed out 6. They lingered on in Asia Minor for some centuries, some growing definitely heretical.

• The doctrine of tongues according to second century Church Father Irenaeus. It is clear from his writings here that the gift of tongues was the ability to speak in a foreign tongue. The purpose of the gift was to bring all peoples and nations into one accord.

Irenaeus on the Gift of Tongues - Charles A. Sullivan
charlesasullivan.com/1053/irenaeous-on-the-gift-of-tongues/

Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church ...
www.cai.org/bible-studies/evidence-speaking...
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

There's many more examples of the Church Fathers discussing Speaking in Tongues and being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Guojing]

if those have called you names that is not right however, I do stand by my comments because you are dishonest. You were insulting I called you on it. You have nothing to offer. You just commented to create division. You lack civility and don't participate .

Do you notice you are insisting that your image of me is the undisputed correct image, and you are reacting accordingly?

Ever considered that the image you created of another is actually the wrong one, hence your adverse reaction to that image is unwarranted?

 

[Guojing]

Do you study the word of God? I ask that respectfully. How about you tell me what you think the role of the Holy Spirit is in the Old Testament please then I will answer you again

I already stated that Exodus 4 is the correct representation of the role of signs and wonders, and it was confirmed by other occasions.

Even Jesus said it himself in the book of John, which is the book of the 8 signs of Jesus, in John 10

23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

Jesus repeated many times in John that the signs he did, the primary role is to authenticate to Israel that he is their promised Messiah.

 

[Guojing]

Wow that was spot on especially about how my mom acts around everyone and how she really is and how she perceives me but that isn't me. Sadly my family is unaware that I am able to see and know how they percieve me I have always been able to look at things with perspective and because of my nature my disability my issues with needing help doing things they see me as a weak moronic incapable child who needs protecting and cannot do anything on his own my mom even came home drunk one night and said I was the weakest person she knows.

But their wrong they don't know or understand me they never have, I may not have a very high view of myself and I may struggle with depression and low self esteem and yes maybe I need more help doing things and learn much slower than others but I am by no means weak and I am not some incapable moronic child. Is this book free? and if so where can I get it? I would buy it but I only get 40 dollars a week to myself so it might be hard to save up for that but now I really want to read this book

You can refer more to the blog written by Don's son, that I took the quote from here. https://www.healyourlife.com/don-t-take-it-personally for the full extract

 

[Scribe]

You as Moderator can call me lier, hater, mocker and scoffer? If I do so. Then at least show me where I do it. Only because I do not agree with an doctrine which I cant find in the bible taught?
And it is not true. You did not show me an Single proof that this was taught.: Speaking in tongues as proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.
You showed me where speaking in tongues where taking place. But this was not my question!
If I am, what you are claim about me, then ban me.
And if you dont want that non tonguespeaker join your thread. Then please next time write this in your thread.

Let us start with the question "what was common in each of these examples?"
Acts 2
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Acts 19
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve

We see that there were differences in each event and also something common to each. There were cloven tongues of fire in only one event that we read of. There was magnifying God in another event, and prophesying in another. However, ALL THREE of these events included speaking in tongues. That is strong evidence that the message we should receive is that tongues is to be expected whenever the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is given. (This is not the same as receiving the Holy Spirit upon regeneration which every christian receives when they are born again) You do not have to speak in tongues to be saved. You do have the Holy Spirit when you are saved. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in scripture came on believers after they were saved.

What was common to each event? Tongues. In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established. This repetition of the gift of tongues being common to these events is a strong message to the reader that it was a normative experience for those who experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that the visible manifestation was that they spoke in tongues. This is made even more clear when Peter says they knew that they had received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost "For they heard them speak with tongues" By making this statement Peter is saying that this was the evidence that they had same experience that Peter had on Pentecost.

This is the scripture that says that speaking in tongues is the evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Ghost like Peter was.

The ball is now in your court. Please address Peter's statement and explain how it is NOT the same as Peter saying that tongues is the evidence that one has had the "poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost" / Baptism of the Holy Ghost / same thing as what happened in the day of Pentecost (whatever phrase you prefer) experience.

 

[CS1]

I already stated that Exodus 4 is the correct representation of the role of signs and wonders, and it was confirmed by other occasions.

Even Jesus said it himself in the book of John, which is the book of the 8 signs of Jesus, in John 10

23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

Jesus repeated many times in John that the signs he did, the primary role is to authenticate to Israel that he is their promised Messiah.

the role of the Holy Spirit I do not like that term but The Spirit of the Living God testifies of the Eternal living God who works in the lives of men. God did signs and wonders in the old Testament Not to show cats and dogs HE is a live HE did to show Man. Jut like in the New Testament