YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?
- Thread starter Silverwings
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It must be considered by those who will review the shooting and determine if it was a justified use of deadly force.
The one problem I can see is that Brooks (while he fought with the Officers, and grabbed their Taser) did not present a clear and present danger to the life of the Officers. He was not shooting at them............. he was running away, not attacking.......... these things will also be considered...........
Right now, IMO, it's a toss up as to how it will be decided........
Brooks certainly bears some blame because he escalated the situation by resisting arrest and trying to escape, and by pointing the Tasar at the Officer, and firing it/if he did fire it...............BUT....... that may well be seen as not life threatening for the Officer, who surely did take the life of Brooks.
While I lean towards the Officers in this matter, it's hard to because I do not know if deadly force was required. They knew who he was, where he lived and such, so, even IF he got away, they could just pick him up later, and with the video for evidence, he could be convicted of a few crimes that would have violated his parole and sent him back to prison.......
The one problem I can see is that Brooks (while he fought with the Officers, and grabbed their Taser) did not present a clear and present danger to the life of the Officers. He was not shooting at them............. he was running away, not attacking.......... these things will also be considered...........
Right now, IMO, it's a toss up as to how it will be decided........
Brooks certainly bears some blame because he escalated the situation by resisting arrest and trying to escape, and by pointing the Tasar at the Officer, and firing it/if he did fire it...............BUT....... that may well be seen as not life threatening for the Officer, who surely did take the life of Brooks.
While I lean towards the Officers in this matter, it's hard to because I do not know if deadly force was required. They knew who he was, where he lived and such, so, even IF he got away, they could just pick him up later, and with the video for evidence, he could be convicted of a few crimes that would have violated his parole and sent him back to prison.......
@p_rehbein
I think they had to apprehend him. How to let a felon with a taser just run away? They would be held responsible... Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I think that's what this was... A lot of people (not talking about you) think that they want the police that backs down and just lets people go. It will be interesting when the scales start tipping over, and it's already beginning, policemen in their county all called sick quickly, they offered them bonuses, but what is a measly bonus versus a possibility for a felony murder charge, witch hunt, and public demonization for doing your job. What about their trauma and stress?
Many people were posting legal excerpts under video uploads, according to that taser is considered "less lethal" (meaning, less likely to be lethal but it can be, this is not to be confused with "non lethal") and also possibility of "serious injury" here justifies deadly force legally. (I emphasize "legally" because I'm speaking what the law says on this, not my personal feelings)...
As to how I feel about it it's a bit of a gray area. I believe police should not be just shooting people by default, but also should have the right to defend themselves. If lives aren't worthless fodder, that also applies to the lives of policemen. The direction all this is headed to reminds me of horrible self defense laws in my home country. Basically if a robber barges into your house and threatens you with a knife, you aren't allowed to use a gun against him. It has to be equal or a smaller force to what he's using, so you also must pick a knife or wrestle, because a stronger weapon isn't legal, and even if you didn't use a bigger force, you may end up in prison for murder or end up being sued, if things go wrong. I am not inventing this, it really is that bad.
I think you're right for bringing up nuances... whether it was required, I basically agree with everything the dude in the video said, every word was in place - he really thought it throughout.
I kept wondering what was there really that they could've done better. Was there anything. Oh yeah, I know, they could have tased him to begin with when he started violently resisting and punching them, instead of warning him several times in attempt to avoid hurting him, he would most likely be alive and well now, but then it would be "police brutality" and they would be called racist pigs, so nope, couldn't have done that.
They could not just "pick him up later". He can steal a car and keep running. He just attacked two policeman and stole a weapon to avoid being arrested, why would he go straight home after that to be found and arrested? How to let an intoxicated person with violent history go like that? They pose a threat to others. How to know they will not harm someone on their way?
Some people asked, why didn't they "just tell him to move the vehicle" or "just called Uber for him" or "just called his family to pick him up"? It's like people have lost all sanity and every concept of what it means to be an adult. They are there to enforce the law. No matter what skin color. People even go as far to claim he wasn't drunk just sleeping, even though it's on seen the video (breathalyzer). Some say, "why didn't they just let him go"? To go drive drunk and kill himself or someone else or disable for life.
Wendy's burned after that. Some people say Wendy's "deserved" the burning, because they are "racist" for calling police on him, and that it's all their fault. And also, "why didn't they walk out to wake him up"? But their employees cannot walk out at that time for safety reasons, I believe.
Another thing, whoever called the police, probably the manager... If you see someone passed out like that, you are thinking most likely drunk (in which case it is unsafe for them to drive), or a medical emergency, one really isn't likely to be resting and sleeping in a car that is running. Either way, you make sure they're checked on. Calling the police was the proper course of action, I seriously doubt it was racist motivation or trying to get anyone into trouble, people think hatred only nowadays to the point that they can't even think straight anymore. Then these people lose their jobs after angry mob burns the place. Can anybody win in this story?
I only see shifting of responsibility to everyone else, what could others have done, blaming literally everyone except Brooks himself. Some people bring up that he wasn't informed in advance that he was being arrested and what for. But police isn't obliged to do so. I believe they tried to not cause him to panic and be friendly, rather than sounding all official and scaring him. Can you imagine the freakout if they said "you are now under arrest", followed with the whole movie script...?
I think they had to apprehend him. How to let a felon with a taser just run away? They would be held responsible... Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I think that's what this was... A lot of people (not talking about you) think that they want the police that backs down and just lets people go. It will be interesting when the scales start tipping over, and it's already beginning, policemen in their county all called sick quickly, they offered them bonuses, but what is a measly bonus versus a possibility for a felony murder charge, witch hunt, and public demonization for doing your job. What about their trauma and stress?
Many people were posting legal excerpts under video uploads, according to that taser is considered "less lethal" (meaning, less likely to be lethal but it can be, this is not to be confused with "non lethal") and also possibility of "serious injury" here justifies deadly force legally. (I emphasize "legally" because I'm speaking what the law says on this, not my personal feelings)...
As to how I feel about it it's a bit of a gray area. I believe police should not be just shooting people by default, but also should have the right to defend themselves. If lives aren't worthless fodder, that also applies to the lives of policemen. The direction all this is headed to reminds me of horrible self defense laws in my home country. Basically if a robber barges into your house and threatens you with a knife, you aren't allowed to use a gun against him. It has to be equal or a smaller force to what he's using, so you also must pick a knife or wrestle, because a stronger weapon isn't legal, and even if you didn't use a bigger force, you may end up in prison for murder or end up being sued, if things go wrong. I am not inventing this, it really is that bad.
I think you're right for bringing up nuances... whether it was required, I basically agree with everything the dude in the video said, every word was in place - he really thought it throughout.
I kept wondering what was there really that they could've done better. Was there anything. Oh yeah, I know, they could have tased him to begin with when he started violently resisting and punching them, instead of warning him several times in attempt to avoid hurting him, he would most likely be alive and well now, but then it would be "police brutality" and they would be called racist pigs, so nope, couldn't have done that.
They could not just "pick him up later". He can steal a car and keep running. He just attacked two policeman and stole a weapon to avoid being arrested, why would he go straight home after that to be found and arrested? How to let an intoxicated person with violent history go like that? They pose a threat to others. How to know they will not harm someone on their way?
Some people asked, why didn't they "just tell him to move the vehicle" or "just called Uber for him" or "just called his family to pick him up"? It's like people have lost all sanity and every concept of what it means to be an adult. They are there to enforce the law. No matter what skin color. People even go as far to claim he wasn't drunk just sleeping, even though it's on seen the video (breathalyzer). Some say, "why didn't they just let him go"? To go drive drunk and kill himself or someone else or disable for life.
Wendy's burned after that. Some people say Wendy's "deserved" the burning, because they are "racist" for calling police on him, and that it's all their fault. And also, "why didn't they walk out to wake him up"? But their employees cannot walk out at that time for safety reasons, I believe.
Another thing, whoever called the police, probably the manager... If you see someone passed out like that, you are thinking most likely drunk (in which case it is unsafe for them to drive), or a medical emergency, one really isn't likely to be resting and sleeping in a car that is running. Either way, you make sure they're checked on. Calling the police was the proper course of action, I seriously doubt it was racist motivation or trying to get anyone into trouble, people think hatred only nowadays to the point that they can't even think straight anymore. Then these people lose their jobs after angry mob burns the place. Can anybody win in this story?
I only see shifting of responsibility to everyone else, what could others have done, blaming literally everyone except Brooks himself. Some people bring up that he wasn't informed in advance that he was being arrested and what for. But police isn't obliged to do so. I believe they tried to not cause him to panic and be friendly, rather than sounding all official and scaring him. Can you imagine the freakout if they said "you are now under arrest", followed with the whole movie script...?
-
2
- Show all
Well this began as me responding to you @p_rehbein , but it snowballed into a big post... My bad 
P.S. Brooks did fire the taser, I've seen on the video yesterday...
P.S. Brooks did fire the taser, I've seen on the video yesterday...
Not at all.
If there is a drunken driver sleeping at the wheel and obstructing traffic in a drive-thru, all it takes is for the police to order a tow-truck to remove the offending vehicle (driver and all) to a safer parking lot location, issue a ticket with a hefty fine, and move on. No one gets hurt, and no one gets killed.
It all started because Brooks was sleeping in his vehicle at the wrong time.
ATLANTA — Atlanta Police have released the 911 audio of a call requesting officers to the Wendy's where Rayshard Brooks would ultimately be shot and killed. The audio confirms previous information provided by police regarding why they were initially called to the scene - that a man had apparently fallen asleep in his car in the Wendy's drive-thru.
https://www.11alive.com/article/new...-call/85-d36edef4-5581-421a-ba1a-dde62c52ad17
And it all started because the police were too stupid to handle this properly. There is no excuse for police stupidity.
If there is a drunken driver sleeping at the wheel and obstructing traffic in a drive-thru, all it takes is for the police to order a tow-truck to remove the offending vehicle (driver and all) to a safer parking lot location, issue a ticket with a hefty fine, and move on. No one gets hurt, and no one gets killed.
It all started because Brooks was sleeping in his vehicle at the wrong time.
ATLANTA — Atlanta Police have released the 911 audio of a call requesting officers to the Wendy's where Rayshard Brooks would ultimately be shot and killed. The audio confirms previous information provided by police regarding why they were initially called to the scene - that a man had apparently fallen asleep in his car in the Wendy's drive-thru.
https://www.11alive.com/article/new...-call/85-d36edef4-5581-421a-ba1a-dde62c52ad17
And it all started because the police were too stupid to handle this properly. There is no excuse for police stupidity.
It is part of the plan because America wants the protests and to ban the police, and they have people that are escalating it in America.
There is no winning against this when the government wants it.
They are turning isolated incidents and applying it to the nation, but what does that have to do with the nation, and all people.
The riots and protests, as well as the coronavirus is all part of the plan to collapse America economically, as well as the developed nations, and to allow the riots, and protests to get out of hand so America can go to a new form of government, and the world will come together as one to work for peace on earth, and everybody is equal.
It is almost as if they wanted to cause African Americans to feel as not equal, to mistreat them, for all those years so they can use them to protest in the future as part of their plan, and get the ball rolling for a nationwide protest, and in the world, so a change can be made in the world for equality for only by people believing people are equal will the nations come together.
The Ku Klux Klan could of been part of the plan all along at the top levels, and America really wanted that white supremacy to shine in America as a set up for the protests in the future.
Donald Trump playing the bad guy to further enrage the people to protest for it is part of the plan.
They have calculated their plan for years of how to go about gathering the nations together, whether to look good, to look bad, whether to go to war, or not go to war, so it was probably all planned out for the protests to happen many years before it happened.
For America had this plan from her start, and they want to cause the police to not be that effective so the people will riot and protest more.
The American government is saying protest baby protest, burn baby burn, tear it down, loot and steal, be loud and violent, come to poppa.
And then after that goes on for a while then America will crack down on them, the military will feel justified for doing that, and go to a new form of government that has no Republican or Democrat party, and all are equal economically and status wise.
And the American government will be justified for doing so as they take all the freedoms away from them, and seize all bank accounts, and assets, and lands, and all people are equal, and ushered to the cities to be totally controlled.
And you could be living next to Michael Jordan for he will be reduced to rubble, and all his riches gone, and a common person like everyone else.
They wanted equality there will be equality.
They wanted to riot and protest, and get out of hand, then all their freedoms will be taken away for freedoms do not cause peace, and they will have a new form of government where they are totally controlled.
It is all a set up and they do not realize it, and they say we are winning, we are making a difference, the people have spoken, there will be equality, but it is part of the plan to cause the nations to come together, and produce the New Age Christ.
They will have another shut down for many businesses are still operating and they want an economic collapse of all businesses except a few like Walmart as it will probably be the one world store.
But they had to reopen to get this protest plan underway, and have the people out there a lot because of the protests, and then the coronavirus is getting bad, and we need another shut down.
And eventually making it appear as if there is no escape but for everyone to get a vaccine with nanotechnology which will track them in the cities where they are confined to as a sophisticated concentration camp, and no people out in the rural areas.
For it is time to produce the New Age Christ, and the nations leaders are now in agreement for their peace plan for the world, and controlled conflict brings about controlled change.
The African Americans are not winning anything but the illusion that they will be equal, and it will appear that way as they remove all public display of prejudice from America and the world, but it was all a plan and the inner circle of the occult, and the new age movement plan is saying you are not equal we only wanted to cause you to think there was equality so the people will come together, and we can produce the New Age Christ.
For they believe the New Age Christ will not start working in the world to establish his kingdom until the nations come together as one to work for peace on earth, and they will not come together unless the people view each other as equal, and the riots and protests, and the people getting out of hand to take away their freedoms, and control them.
They will remove all public display of prejudice whether ethnic group, men and women, gay and non gay, or whatever it is.
And when people are confined to the city, and no development can happen outside city limits they will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, for if they cannot go outside city limits they are not going to allow the people to keep growing bigger than the city, and they are not going to develop beyond the city limits, and they want population reduction for there is too many people on mother earth for this plan is of the occult.
And they will command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.
Everyone will only go by their needs with nobody getting more than another person.
And then if a white military man cracks down on an African American there is no prejudice for all are equal now.
And there is no protests for the freedoms are gone, and they are not dealing with America anymore, but they are dealing with the world in which all nations leaders are together.
It is all a set up, and they do not realize it.
And it all happened because of evolution, and science confirmed it, so they interpreted the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.
So they are looking at religions, and reality in a different way with a new set of beliefs, so things will change because of that.
And the occult is the most dangerous and cruelest belief system in the world for it is all about them exalting themselves through the power of nature to be supreme, and elite above other people.
There is no winning against this when the government wants it.
They are turning isolated incidents and applying it to the nation, but what does that have to do with the nation, and all people.
The riots and protests, as well as the coronavirus is all part of the plan to collapse America economically, as well as the developed nations, and to allow the riots, and protests to get out of hand so America can go to a new form of government, and the world will come together as one to work for peace on earth, and everybody is equal.
It is almost as if they wanted to cause African Americans to feel as not equal, to mistreat them, for all those years so they can use them to protest in the future as part of their plan, and get the ball rolling for a nationwide protest, and in the world, so a change can be made in the world for equality for only by people believing people are equal will the nations come together.
The Ku Klux Klan could of been part of the plan all along at the top levels, and America really wanted that white supremacy to shine in America as a set up for the protests in the future.
Donald Trump playing the bad guy to further enrage the people to protest for it is part of the plan.
They have calculated their plan for years of how to go about gathering the nations together, whether to look good, to look bad, whether to go to war, or not go to war, so it was probably all planned out for the protests to happen many years before it happened.
For America had this plan from her start, and they want to cause the police to not be that effective so the people will riot and protest more.
The American government is saying protest baby protest, burn baby burn, tear it down, loot and steal, be loud and violent, come to poppa.
And then after that goes on for a while then America will crack down on them, the military will feel justified for doing that, and go to a new form of government that has no Republican or Democrat party, and all are equal economically and status wise.
And the American government will be justified for doing so as they take all the freedoms away from them, and seize all bank accounts, and assets, and lands, and all people are equal, and ushered to the cities to be totally controlled.
And you could be living next to Michael Jordan for he will be reduced to rubble, and all his riches gone, and a common person like everyone else.
They wanted equality there will be equality.
They wanted to riot and protest, and get out of hand, then all their freedoms will be taken away for freedoms do not cause peace, and they will have a new form of government where they are totally controlled.
It is all a set up and they do not realize it, and they say we are winning, we are making a difference, the people have spoken, there will be equality, but it is part of the plan to cause the nations to come together, and produce the New Age Christ.
They will have another shut down for many businesses are still operating and they want an economic collapse of all businesses except a few like Walmart as it will probably be the one world store.
But they had to reopen to get this protest plan underway, and have the people out there a lot because of the protests, and then the coronavirus is getting bad, and we need another shut down.
And eventually making it appear as if there is no escape but for everyone to get a vaccine with nanotechnology which will track them in the cities where they are confined to as a sophisticated concentration camp, and no people out in the rural areas.
For it is time to produce the New Age Christ, and the nations leaders are now in agreement for their peace plan for the world, and controlled conflict brings about controlled change.
The African Americans are not winning anything but the illusion that they will be equal, and it will appear that way as they remove all public display of prejudice from America and the world, but it was all a plan and the inner circle of the occult, and the new age movement plan is saying you are not equal we only wanted to cause you to think there was equality so the people will come together, and we can produce the New Age Christ.
For they believe the New Age Christ will not start working in the world to establish his kingdom until the nations come together as one to work for peace on earth, and they will not come together unless the people view each other as equal, and the riots and protests, and the people getting out of hand to take away their freedoms, and control them.
They will remove all public display of prejudice whether ethnic group, men and women, gay and non gay, or whatever it is.
And when people are confined to the city, and no development can happen outside city limits they will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, for if they cannot go outside city limits they are not going to allow the people to keep growing bigger than the city, and they are not going to develop beyond the city limits, and they want population reduction for there is too many people on mother earth for this plan is of the occult.
And they will command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.
Everyone will only go by their needs with nobody getting more than another person.
And then if a white military man cracks down on an African American there is no prejudice for all are equal now.
And there is no protests for the freedoms are gone, and they are not dealing with America anymore, but they are dealing with the world in which all nations leaders are together.
It is all a set up, and they do not realize it.
And it all happened because of evolution, and science confirmed it, so they interpreted the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.
So they are looking at religions, and reality in a different way with a new set of beliefs, so things will change because of that.
And the occult is the most dangerous and cruelest belief system in the world for it is all about them exalting themselves through the power of nature to be supreme, and elite above other people.
If someone is dangerous to others even if they are drunk the police often need to get involved to stop that person harming others.
unfortunately a lot of policing involves locking up drunken people in jail so they dont go round abusing and offending people that are not drunk. Or crashing into other people with their cars and killing people.
whther they are put in remand, jail, or hospital, thats a police job to do that, for the safety of everyone else.
then those people can dry out or get rehabbed or whatever. Or at least be kept away so they cant cause any more harm to others. it is a dangerous job policing as you may be dealing with violent people on the job and in america, armed violent people. you can have bullet proof vests and all the weapons to defend yourself but policng actually involves a lot more than using force.
if you have the ability to keep calm in any situation and defuse crises then thats what you ought to do, and police need to have methods to be able to do that which is most often than not COMMUNICATION.
unfortunately a lot of policing involves locking up drunken people in jail so they dont go round abusing and offending people that are not drunk. Or crashing into other people with their cars and killing people.
whther they are put in remand, jail, or hospital, thats a police job to do that, for the safety of everyone else.
then those people can dry out or get rehabbed or whatever. Or at least be kept away so they cant cause any more harm to others. it is a dangerous job policing as you may be dealing with violent people on the job and in america, armed violent people. you can have bullet proof vests and all the weapons to defend yourself but policng actually involves a lot more than using force.
if you have the ability to keep calm in any situation and defuse crises then thats what you ought to do, and police need to have methods to be able to do that which is most often than not COMMUNICATION.
-
1
- Show all
True enough, expect they do not need to shoot to kill. If police are trained in martial arts, they could easily subdue someone. What is truly remarkable is the stupidity of so many police decisions. Also had all police forces properly policed themselves at all times, many issues could have easily been avoided. Then we have the waste of police manpower on non-crimes such as a few grams of cocaine or what have you in someone's pockets. Then we have government officials tying the hands of police officers for serious crimes. And serious consideration (in the past) of a national police force would have made a huge difference today.
However, the police are not social workers. They could certainly have sent a social worker to deal with that aspect. The immediate issue was obstruction of traffic. The immediate solution was removal of the obstruction. Very simple and straightforward. And because the simple solution was neglected, a life was taken and now a police officer faces a murder charge. All for nothing.