Paul expected the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?

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User46952

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Mar 12, 2019
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Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?

References:
1Thessalonians 4:15: … that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:17: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ….
1Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Corinthians 15:52: … For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
Most, if not all, of the believers at that time probably thought they would..............shoot, I expect it's possible He will be here come the morning.............the ONE THING I know for sure is believers better be living like He will!
 
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User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?

References:
1Thessalonians 4:15: … that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:17: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ….
1Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Corinthians 15:52: … For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Click to expand...

in these passages Paul uses the word "we" to refer those of us who are still alive at his coming.
 
User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?

References:
1Thessalonians 4:15: … that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:17: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ….
1Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Corinthians 15:52: … For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Click to expand...

You ask a good question. "We" and "you", and "we" and "they", make a huge difference. So we had better explain this.

First of all, Paul taught that Christ could return at any time. Not only does the grammar of your verses indicate this, but we have two additional witnesses in 1st Thessalonians.
  1. The Letter was written to the Thessalonian Assembly because time had passed since Paul's short, 3-week sojourn there when he established the Church in Thessaloniki in Acts 17, and some of the saints had died. Paul, could not have taught all there is to know (he took 14 years) in three weeks. So although he taught the rapture, he did not teach all the ramifications. The Thessalonian saints thought that those among them who had died would miss the rapture. Thus, the wording of Chapter 4 is not to lay down the doctrine of a rapture, but to correct an idea about it and the Thessalonians would be "comforted". But the very fact that they were "dis-comforted" shows that they expected the Lord's "coming" (literally "presence") in their lifetimes.
  2. In 1st Thessalonians 5:23 Paul says; "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Twice in this verse Paul uses the word "whole". Man is made of three parts - (i) body, (ii) and (iii) spirit. At death these three parts are torn apart. The body returns to the elements on the surafce of the earth (Gen.3:19). The spirit of man returns to God Who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7) and the soul of man goes to Hades under the earth (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9, Act.2:27, 31). So, in death a man is NOT WHOLE, but sundered. A living man is WHOLE. Paul's prayer in 1st Thessalonians 5:23 is proof that he taught that our Lord could return in their lifetimes.
Added to this, because the Church must live by faith, there are no signs given to it to warn of the coming of our Lord except the Fig Tree in Matthew 24, and that is both prophecy and parable. All the prophecies of the prophets pertain to Israel. So, whether one lived in 65 AD or 1965 AD, our Lord could come for the Church (not Israel) at any time. Remember, the text does not deal with the TIME that our Lord will come because only the Father knows that. The text deals with setting the hearts of the Thessalonians at ease that those who had died would suffer no disadvantage at the time of the Rapture.

Next, we must answer the question; "Did Paul know that he would die?" The answer is YES!
  1. In Acts 9:16 our Lord says that Paul must suffer terribly for His sake
  2. In 2nd Corinthians 4:9 the Apostles must see death
  3. In Philippians 3:11 Paul would be part of a resurrection
  4. In 2nd Timothy 4:6 Paul said that the time of his departure was at hand. That is, he knew all along that he would die, but did not know the time until it was "at hand".
Now we turn to the grammar of your verses. If Paul, like Peter, knew he would die before our Lord came (in order to be part of a resurrection), why did he say "we" in the verses of the OP?
  1. In 1st Corinthians 15, in verse 49 Paul addresses ONLY those who have born the image of the earthly, and will, in resurrection, bear the heavenly image. So the "we" is not to indicate Paul and the Corinthians but Christians verses the unbeliever, who will NOT bear the heavenly. Only those with the heavenly calling (Heb.3:1) and the birth "from above" (Jn.3.3 lit. Gk.) will bear the heavenly image in resurrection. The "we" is opposed to "they" in this case.
  2. In 1st Thessalonians 4:15 and 17 Paul was, as explained above, comparing the dead saints and the live saints when it came time for Rapture. As he was one of the living THEN (as he wrote), he could not very-well say that he was dead. To maintain the truth he had to "we" because he was alive at the time. But note how the grammar changes from Chapter 5 verse 11. Suddenly, he stops including himself. From 5:11 onward it is "ye" and "your". He ends with verse 23. It is NOT, "And the very God of peace sanctify US wholly; and I pray God OUR whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." It is only "YOU" and "YOUR" - excluding himself.
 
Paul "we which remain". Who is we? "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." Just read before and after.. allot of "WE" in that.

All my life.. so hard for me to NOT put my self into someones story or movie..so lol man I can cry so easy.. thinking its happening to me. So I look at Jesus talking to 12. I think of all He did with them for 3 years. And seen that this son of God never lied. And when He spoke it always happened. So not Hes telling us He is leaving but will come back and get us so where He is we will be.,

So.. yeah.. He goes up.. I KNOW at any moment He is coming back for me. This is just ME how I see it.

Thanks for what ya'll posted :)
 
User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?

References:
1Thessalonians 4:15: … that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:17: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ….
1Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Corinthians 15:52: … For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Click to expand...
He said we who are, not we. He wrote of his death so it’s clear he did not expect Jesus in his lifetime. He likely knew Peter would also die too. What they likely believed is that the gospel would go around the world changing it and Jesus would return when his enemies were made a footstool for his feet (friends) before he returns.
 
User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?

References:
1Thessalonians 4:15: … that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:17: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ….
1Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Corinthians 15:52: … For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Click to expand...
It may, Holy Spirit make Paul use we, because Holy Spirit know end time people Will read that letter.

That letter Made applicable for last day. Because It talk about second coming
 
Jackson123 said:
It may, Holy Spirit make Paul use we, because Holy Spirit know end time people Will read that letter.

That letter Made applicable for last day. Because It talk about second coming
Click to expand...
The End and the second appearance of Christ are not at the same time. The End was the End of the old covenant and the Jewish age.
 
User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
Click to expand...
Not the Second Coming but the Resurrection/Rapture. The Rapture has always been imminent, but it would only take place after the "fulness of the Gentiles" had come into the Church.
 
User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Paul is not in a different timeline to the disciples, Paul even had meetings with them, the discuss teaching. The bible says Paul and Peter disagreed on who should be taught about Jesus, he said everyone should follow Jewish law and Paul said no the gentiles are just as important. Peter was showing favouritism. I am sure that Peter verified Pauls teachings, and also i believe that Paul must have seen Jesus at some point during his ministry, otherwise he wouldnt know much about Jesus, and he wouldnt have been so persistent in trying to disprove Jesus and his teaching.
 
User46952 said:
Did Paul expect the second coming of Jesus during his lifetime?
When he wrote letters to Thessalonians and Corinthians he wrote that we (including Paul) would be alive until coming of the Lord.
Any thoughts?

References:
1Thessalonians 4:15: … that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:17: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ….
1Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Corinthians 15:52: … For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit never left.

What is meant by the second coming seeing he is here reigning in the hearts of Mankind. A kingdom of priests, as a labor of his love or called a work of His faith ? Does the second coming mean the end of the world the end of time the last day?
 
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