Not By Works

[biker]

I am speaking to the church/movement?

I am a Christian!
Pentecostal!

 

[Fastfredy0]

I agree we are to contend for the faith.
And falseness needs to be repudiated.
I think I will just do so with more precision....

Oh, oh ... don't point your 'precision' at me. Pick on some other Reformed person like @preacher4truth with that precision.

Aside: Said in jovial, teasing way

 

[biker]

If you do belong to a "Hebrews Roots Church" you have far more important things to be concerned about.

Why assume someone with Jewish Hebrew Heritage and knows the Hebrew must belong to a Jewish Synagogue?

Why do you assume so much?

 

[Fastfredy0]

but at least you try to engage Scripture and biblical responses. No, I do not agree with loss of salvation whatsoever, but you say some things I do agree with. I respect your responses, though I disagree with a majority of them.

Complete agreement that @Micaiah-imla conducts herself very well. So does @DorothyMae IMO.
Aside: I also agree with the Preacher that I don't agree with you alot

 

[EleventhHour]

Why assume someone with Jewish Hebrew Heritage and knows the Hebrew must belong to a Jewish Synagogue?

Why do you assume so much?

I did not assume I asked if you belonged to the Hebrew Roots movement.... some of what you is similar to their thinking.

 

[preacher4truth]

Complete agreement that @Micaiah-imla conducts herself very well. So does @DorothyMae IMO.
Aside: I also agree with the Preacher that I don't agree with you alot

Agreed. Hopefully they won't be chased off. I'd like to engage them and see if they can be convinced of some of their misconceptions.

It seems like around evening time the mocking and ridicule picks up the pace when the entire crew clocks in. Just an observation.

 

[preacher4truth]

Oh, oh ... don't point your 'precision' at me. Pick on some other Reformed person like @preacher4truth with that precision.

Aside: Said in jovial, teasing way

I read what others say, then decide to not respond to more than a few. Those responses are generally snide in nature and aren't worth engaging. They're just here to chum the waters and sow discord.

Of course there is an ignore feature too. If someone's having a tantrum feel free to use it on any person on the site, and I'd suggest discontinuing slinging insults with said person(s) on ignore, it's rather callow behavior.

 

[EleventhHour]

Agreed. Hopefully they won't be chased off. I'd like to engage them and see if they can be convinced of some of their misconceptions.

It seems like around evening time the mocking and ridicule picks up the pace when the entire crew clocks in. Just an observation.

I have an idea, since you think we mock and ridicule, you can start your own thread and I promise I will not come visit it.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You are sounding pretty stupid yourself Thinking anyone is saved by the KJV or thinks they are

What??!? An inflammatory remark! Better straighten up there!

 

[Fastfredy0]

How about you deal with this post

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4302582

by @dcontroversal

Oh, let me .. this should be easy. I will comment in BOLD and strike thru the irrelevant editorializing


You know, the Calvinists on this thread would tap dance and say we undermine God because we say MAN HAS A CHOICE to choose or not [this is true ].....THE FUNNY THING is, by their very dogma they DETHRONE GOD [well this may or may not be true, he presents no evidence to substantiate and therefore is to be ignored. For the immature audience the response would be, "no we don't you do] and make him out to be an inept god with no power...notice... [well this may or may not be true, he presents no evidence to substantiate and therefore is to be ignored. He gives conclusions and no evidence. Like going to court and saying person is guilty and send him to jail with no trial].

They say.....GOD CHOSES MAN A FOR HEAVEN and MAN B FOR HELL and men have no choice and grace is irresistible..... [almost true, God choses the man for heaven and does not chose the man going to hell]

If this is true, and by their dogma God fails... [well this may or may not be true, he presents no evidence to substantiate and therefore is to be ignored.]

God would have ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. [Well, again he gives no evidence ... but I will help him out. He is probably referring to verses like "he Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance. " This comes down to a difference of sovereign will and moral will. Example: God wishes all men would not sin (moral will). God created a world in which He knew men would sin (sovereign will). Did God purposely fail, when he created the earth. I say OF COURSE NOT, my opponent would say, if he was consistent in his logic; "Yes, God failed".

If this verse is true and it is, CALVINISM contradicts it......THEY SAY GOD CHOOSES, MAN HAS NO CHOICE and some are chosen for hell. [I think I addressed this. Again, a correction. Man has a choice and man always chooses to disobey God. Because everyone sin you assume man had no choice. Man always is free to chose and he always chooses what he desires most at the time. Man always decides to sin a some point.

So, if GOD CHOOSES, man has NO CHOICE [already refuted], and GOD would have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED [agreed, His moral will is that all men obey men and be saved though none desire to obey]........he must be pretty weak then [a conclusion that I have shown to be drawn on false premises], because HE IS GOD but CANNOT SAVE all men [point not proved ... God save ALL, but has decided to save a remnant] and only chooses a few even though HE WOULD HAVE ALL BE SAVED AND SAVE ALL.... [refuted]



Calvinism is evil and not OF GOD *insert snoring sound here*

Non calvinism:
You co-operate to save yourself so you do a work and can boost of you salvation
God's knowledge is dependent upon what you do ...example: God looks into the future to learn who will believe
God's freedom is subservient to man's in regard to who will be saved
God doesn't care about which individual is saved, just as long as He offers salvation to many
God doesn't offer salvation to many as many do not hear the word and faith comes from hearing
God is not sovereign in all things for God abdicates his thrown in regards to who is saved (oh praise His creation, man)
God sends most of those He loves to Hell (with their co-operation of course)
God contradicts himself in John 1:12-13 for He says it is not by man's will that man is saved; but by God's will
God is not immutable as his plan change according to who decides to believe Him
“Christ died for all” it teaches that His death, in and of itself, actually saves no one; that His death was in vain for many.
God shows favoritism as He chooses to save those that chose Him

.... I could go on and on and on

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

One more time
WE DO NOT BELIEVE THIS
you continue to break gods commandments while judging others just proves your hypocrisy

First off, this is not about “we” but “you”. Here’s the proof. Now try to wiggle out of this...

eternally-gratefull said:
I think we have to remember, Trying to limit God to our understanding can lead to erronious thinking

The though God predestined people based on knowledge makes sense. God said I will go and pay for sin, and these people who will come to faith and ask me to save them, I chose or elect to save.

It also helps in his soverignty. As God will choose people he KNOWS will do what he needs them to do to do what he needs. Like Pharoah. There could have been 10 men who could have had that position, God chose the one who would do what he needed, and as the word says he raised him up and put him in that position.

Free will does not negate or hamper gods soverignty. God is God. He can do what he wants, and there is more than enough people to do the things he needs done, he does not have to force anyone to do anything (though he can like he did Jonah, put roadblocks and lead people to do what he needs)

Here is your salvation by merit that you’ve been peddling on here for years. Now try to backpedal out of this. There’s more proof of you teaching this here.

 

[preacher4truth]

What??!? An inflammatory remark! Better straighten up there!

Funny isn't it? I was hit up for "inflammatory" remarks once. The person tried to shame me "Look what you did! You're evil! You WRONG! Shameful of you! Sad! Shame, shame SHAME!!!!"

I believe others agreed it was bad, terrible satanic behavior to do such a thing, lol!!!!!!!

But lo, and behold, the well documented and noted behavior continues on from said person.

Wonder if I should report him? Tattle tale on him? Naw, I'll pass.

 

[preacher4truth]

First off, this is not about “we” but “you”. Here’s the proof. Now try to wiggle out of this...



Here is your salvation by merit that you’ve been peddling on here for years. Now try to backpedal out of this. There’s more proof of you teaching this here.

Well well well, he never taught that! "You're slandering me and lying, I don't teach that, and I'm going to report you!"

Uh-huh. Like I said I didn't lie. Looks like someone else has in attempt to destroy another's character. Namely me.

 

[VCO]

I guess that means you have no logical response but can only repeat what I said.

OSAS also renders its adherents unable to mount a reason for the belief they have. It’s wishful thinking.

IN MY OPINION, YET ANOTHER BOLD FACE LIE Made Up by people on your side of the Fence, TOLD and RETOLD,
ABOUT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED BELIEFS, without a lick of KNOWLEDGE about what We Truly BELIEVE.

Here is my PROOF:


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

John 10:29-30 (NASB)
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 "I and the Father are one."

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say [as a CONFESSION that HE is the MASTER of my LIFE], “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:27-30 (HCSB)
27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying love for our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

SALVATION is of the Human Spirit, John 3:6, as you are Born Again, and you receive it the moment you truly believe.
SANCTIFICATION happens over a lifetime, as the Holy Spirit teaches us to Walk like Jesus, and we will not be PERFECT until the Resurrection.
1 John 1:7, 1 John 2:6

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

✞ 🕇 ✞


Acts 20:29-31 (HCSB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What??!? An inflammatory remark! Better straighten up there!

I responded in kind

notice how you confronted myself but not him

And it’s not a vendetta or focused attack

 

[EleventhHour]

salvation by merit

And your salvation is .....

John Calvin "Institutes," Book III, chapter 23,

"....Not all men are created with similar destiny but eternal life is foreordained for some, and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say, he is predestined either to life or to death."

 

[preacher4truth]

@Sackcloth-N-Ashes, thanks for being a supporting brother, thanks for having my back in the midst of @eternally-gratefull slandering, threatening, and accusing me of lying along with some others encouraging him on.

I did not lie at all about what he teaches. That's one thing I do not engage on in here.

I extended an offer to reconcile on repentance and owning up, but it doesn't look like that is going to be received.

I'm saddened but not surprised to see insults still being handed out by the same to another person. The evidence is clear where this "war" stems from, and it isn't us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For the record, this is not about "retribution" but is about seeking reconciliation via repentance. I'm not going to take lying abut others with a grain of salt due to the fact it is an ongoing endeavor by some on here for quite a long while.

How can there be resolution when you refuse to repent yourself? How many times have you been shown you do the very thing that you accuse others of and yet deny it and act as if it is all them

Resolution would be great for all involved. But it will not happen as long as you continue to
Judge others while refusing to acknowledge your own sin in this area

Those judging, agreeing, accusing of seeking the former do not know what they are talking about. One would certainly say and accuse of anything other than seeking reconciliation as she, in my honest opinion would not want to see reconciliation or repentance take place. Bashing me in the same response about talking to a brother living in sin, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 &c and warning him as a friend Biblically is absurd and honestly a bit sinister and unBiblical. I pray God brings this man to repentance in spite of efforts to block this from taking place; 2 Peter 3:9.

I am seeking reconciliation, and repentance of an individual to end his campaign of accusing of slander, and lying against me in this very thread. I have been relentless in pursuing it, and that is biblical as well. This is like the second day or maybe third day. If he doesn't repent of falsely accusing me of lying and slander, then that is his problem in the end. He has the ability to do so privately as well.

My objective is to establish ground where dialog without all that can take place on this site, Hebrews 12:14; Luke 17:3, and other passages support this effort.

Once again
you want reconciliation. Admit that you have lied slandered and Done unto others what you claim they do unto you and have made inflammatory posts to others. ((Or are you saying oncefallen lied?)

Reconciliation is great but it takes both sides

 

[biker]

I did not assume I asked if you belonged to the Hebrew Roots movement.... some of what you is similar to their thinking.

I know the teachings because I was taught what they were. But like the Jewish Celebrations, my Grandfather installed to us those were symbolisms of Christ. My Grandfather was definitely Messianic Jew before that term was coined.

 

[EleventhHour]

How can there be resolution when you refuse to repent yourself? How many times have you been shown you do the very thing that you accuse others of and yet deny it and act as if it is all them

Resolution would be great for all involved. But it will not happen as long as you continue to
Judge others while refusing to acknowledge your own sin in this area


Once again
you want reconciliation. Admit that you have lied slandered and Done unto others what you claim they do unto you and have made inflammatory posts to others. ((Or are you saying oncefallen lied?)

Reconciliation is great but it takes both sides

Notice I responded to him with an apology... no response.

Very telling!

All on his terms...sad.