Is Torah Law?

[Blik]

The word Torah is transcribed, usually, as law. What is the Torah besides being the first five books of scripture?

Scripture sometimes speaks of the law as the customs that Moses gave the Jews. At other times it is speaking of the eternal laws built into our universe. How can we tell the difference? Could we know the difference if we understood the word torah, and knew exactly when it was transcribed as law?

 

[acts5_29]

That is the million-dollar question. I don't think there is a single easy answer to that question, but at the same time there is. Romans 2:9-29 offers a lot of insight.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%202&version=NIV

Romans 2:14-15 says that Gentiles sometimes obey the Law, even without "having" it, because it is written on their consciences and on their hearts.

Funny thing: the fact that you care enough to ask the question suggests that you are already obeying it.

 

[Blik]

That is the million-dollar question. I don't think there is a single easy answer to that question, but at the same time there is. Romans 2:9-29 offers a lot of insight.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%202&version=NIV

Romans 2:14-15 says that Gentiles sometimes obey the Law, even without "having" it, because it is written on their consciences and on their hearts.

Funny thing: the fact that you care enough to ask the question suggests that you are already obeying it.

I thank our gracious Lord that when we love the Lord with our whole heart and soul and still fail in obedience, our Lord gives us a safety met of forgiveness.

Surely, with prayer and study we can find the answer. The Lord tells us the "law of Moses" does not need to be followed and the Lord tells us He and the law are eternal. We only need to determine what the Lord means by the law of Moses.

 

[Magenta]

Torah means instruction.

More than Just 'Law'

The word torah - (Strong's #8451) means more than just 'law', its usual simplistic translation (always 'law' in the KJV 219x). It derives from yarah - (Strong's #3384) meaning 'to shoot out the hand as pointing, to show, indicate', 'to teach, instruct', 'to lay foundations', 'to sprinkle, to water', 'to shoot, as an arrow'.

yarah - Yârâh begins with the letter 'y' yôdh which is the picture letter of a hand whilst another word sometimes used for teaching and instruction lâmadh (Strong's #3925) begins with picture letter 'l' of an ox-goad, used for disciplining and training an animal or soldiers. How much better to be taught by pointing than by poking, by the demonstration of the hand rather than the discipline of the rod.

torah - Tôrâh then derives from a root verb which has more to do with 'hand' led instruction than 'rod' following legalism. It means:

'instruction' as from a parent to a child (Proverbs 1:8; 3:1; 4:2; 7:2).
'doctrine/instruction' via the prophets (Isaiah 1:10; 8:16,20; 42:4,21)
'legal instruction' as in the 'law of sacrifice' (Leviticus 6:7; 7:7)
'the Pentateuch/Mosaic revelation' (Joshua 1:8) source

 

[17Bees]

Torah means instruction.

More than Just 'Law'

The word torah - (Strong's #8451) means more than just 'law', its usual simplistic translation (always 'law' in the KJV 219x). It derives from yarah - (Strong's #3384) meaning 'to shoot out the hand as pointing, to show, indicate', 'to teach, instruct', 'to lay foundations', 'to sprinkle, to water', 'to shoot, as an arrow'.

yarah - Yârâh begins with the letter 'y' yôdh which is the picture letter of a hand whilst another word sometimes used for teaching and instruction lâmadh (Strong's #3925) begins with picture letter 'l' of an ox-goad, used for disciplining and training an animal or soldiers. How much better to be taught by pointing than by poking, by the demonstration of the hand rather than the discipline of the rod.

torah - Tôrâh then derives from a root verb which has more to do with 'hand' led instruction than 'rod' following legalism. It means:

'instruction' as from a parent to a child (Proverbs 1:8; 3:1; 4:2; 7:2).
'doctrine/instruction' via the prophets (Isaiah 1:10; 8:16,20; 42:4,21)
'legal instruction' as in the 'law of sacrifice' (Leviticus 6:7; 7:7)
'the Pentateuch/Mosaic revelation' (Joshua 1:8) source

This was about as good a definition of Torah, the law that you're going to get. The only thing to add was this explanation in 1John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Magenta]

This was about as good a definition of Torah, the law that you're going to get. The only thing to add was this explanation in 1John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 13:10

 

[Scribe]

Wasn't that an old war movie. Torah, Torah, Torah?

 

[Blik]

Torah means instruction.

More than Just 'Law'

The word torah - (Strong's #8451) means more than just 'law', its usual simplistic translation (always 'law' in the KJV 219x). It derives from yarah - (Strong's #3384) meaning 'to shoot out the hand as pointing, to show, indicate', 'to teach, instruct', 'to lay foundations', 'to sprinkle, to water', 'to shoot, as an arrow'.

yarah - Yârâh begins with the letter 'y' yôdh which is the picture letter of a hand whilst another word sometimes used for teaching and instruction lâmadh (Strong's #3925) begins with picture letter 'l' of an ox-goad, used for disciplining and training an animal or soldiers. How much better to be taught by pointing than by poking, by the demonstration of the hand rather than the discipline of the rod.

torah - Tôrâh then derives from a root verb which has more to do with 'hand' led instruction than 'rod' following legalism. It means:

'instruction' as from a parent to a child (Proverbs 1:8; 3:1; 4:2; 7:2).
'doctrine/instruction' via the prophets (Isaiah 1:10; 8:16,20; 42:4,21)
'legal instruction' as in the 'law of sacrifice' (Leviticus 6:7; 7:7)
'the Pentateuch/Mosaic revelation' (Joshua 1:8) source

You are a woman after my own heart, you looked up the definition.

Shouldn't this answer lots of our differences about law, for in the original scripture written in Hebrew this is what the law is. It is only in the translation of this word that we have what scripture in our translation tells us is law.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Scripture sometimes speaks of the law as the customs that Moses gave the Jews. At other times it is speaking of the eternal laws built into our universe.

The word "law" is used in several ways in the New Testament, and the immediately context determines the mean:

1. Law = the Word of God
2. Law = Tanakh (the entire Old Testament)
3. Law = Torah = the Law of Moses = the Old Covenant = Exodus to Deuteronomy
4. Law = the Decalogue = the Ten Commandments

When Jesus and the apostles referred to "Moses", they meant #3.

 

[Blik]

The word "law" is used in several ways in the New Testament, and the immediately context determines the mean:

1. Law = the Word of God
2. Law = Tanakh (the entire Old Testament)
3. Law = Torah = the Law of Moses = the Old Covenant = Exodus to Deuteronomy
4. Law = the Decalogue = the Ten Commandments

When Jesus and the apostles referred to "Moses", they meant #3.

when you say old covenant, what do you mean? There are many covenants in the OT, the main ones are the Noahic, the Abraham, Mosaic, and Davidic. I am told the old covenant is cancelled, but no one can give a scripture saying this.

We are told some is obsolete. Some of the customs Moses gave the Jews are obsolete, do you mean these? Posters just say the old covenant is over, but there is still a rainbow, Christ is a descendant of David, Abraham does have many descendants, etc.

 

[Nehemiah6]

when you say old covenant, what do you mean? There are many covenants in the OT, the main ones are the Noahic, the Abraham, Mosaic, and Davidic.

You are just confused. The "Old Covenant" means the Law of Moses, which has been replaced by the New Covenant.

 

[wolfwint]

That is the million-dollar question. I don't think there is a single easy answer to that question, but at the same time there is. Romans 2:9-29 offers a lot of insight.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%202&version=NIV

Romans 2:14-15 says that Gentiles sometimes obey the Law, even without "having" it, because it is written on their consciences and on their hearts.

Funny thing: the fact that you care enough to ask the question suggests that you are already obeying it.

I Think acts 15, 5-20 at the concile in Jerusalem gives the answer. This was the question there, too.

 

[Blik]

You are just confused. The "Old Covenant" means the Law of Moses, which has been replaced by the New Covenant.

If God wiped out the Law of Moses, then it is OK to steal, OK to have other Gods. There is no bad effects from sin, so jails are out. We shouldn't teach our children to share or be kind to others.

 

[Blik]

I Think acts 15, 5-20 at the concile in Jerusalem gives the answer. This was the question there, too.

I agree with you.

Have you thought about that the synagogue required these things from people to allow them to enter? The converted gentiles needed to go there to learn about God and to have fellowship with others who accepted the Lord. At that time Christians fellowshipped with orthodox Jews as both worshipping the same God. Both believed in a Messiah, it was just that one accepted Christ as the Messiah and others did not.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If God wiped out the Law of Moses, then it is OK to steal, OK to have other Gods. There is no bad effects from sin, so jails are out. We shouldn't teach our children to share or be kind to others.

The Ten Commandments are eternal and they are all within the New Covenant and the Law of Christ. But since you are THOROUGHLY CONFUSED about all of this, you imagine that the Ten Commandments were *wiped out*.

The commandments which were rendered NULL AND VOID were those pertaining to:

1. The tabernacle/temple and its sacrifices
2. The Levitical priesthood and the Levites
3. All the ceremonial observances within the Torah
4. The feasts, festivals, and holy days, including the sabbath

This is all clearly revealed in the epistle to the Hebrews, written specifically to Hebrew Christians, so that they would understand that the Law of Moses was null and void, but the Ten Commandments -- God's moral and spiritual laws -- are eternal.

 

[Blik]

The Ten Commandments are eternal and they are all within the New Covenant and the Law of Christ. But since you are THOROUGHLY CONFUSED about all of this, you imagine that the Ten Commandments were *wiped out*.

The commandments which were rendered NULL AND VOID were those pertaining to:

1. The tabernacle/temple and its sacrifices
2. The Levitical priesthood and the Levites
3. All the ceremonial observances within the Torah
4. The feasts, festivals, and holy days, including the sabbath

This is all clearly revealed in the epistle to the Hebrews, written specifically to Hebrew Christians, so that they would understand that the Law of Moses was null and void, but the Ten Commandments -- God's moral and spiritual laws -- are eternal.

I am not confused, I am pointing out that you are confused. We are told that we should learn from all scripture and in confusion people say the new covenant wiped scripture out. By studying the priesthood, we learn of what Christ means to us. The temple was based on the Lord. Cutting foreskin was a mark of belonging to the Lord. That was the point of it, and that still stands but through the Holy Spirit instead of a fleshly mark. And the Lord never, once told us not to celebrate his plan of salvation or to pray or that He recreated the world so the seventh day stopped being the day God rested and asked us to.

 

[jacob_g]

The word Torah is transcribed, usually, as law. What is the Torah besides being the first five books of scripture?

Scripture sometimes speaks of the law as the customs that Moses gave the Jews. At other times it is speaking of the eternal laws built into our universe. How can we tell the difference? Could we know the difference if we understood the word torah, and knew exactly when it was transcribed as law?

Torah is the teaching. I do not know when the 5 Books became the "Law" , a word used loosely. It makes it easy for Christians to cut out the first 5 books of the Bible because of the lack of understanding "we are not under the Law".....

 

[Blik]

Torah is the teaching. I do not know when the 5 Books became the "Law" , a word used loosely. It makes it easy for Christians to cut out the first 5 books of the Bible because of the lack of understanding "we are not under the Law".....

Do you think that because Christ forgives our sins that we should not consider the Torah?

 

[jacob_g]

Do you think that because Christ forgives our sins that we should not consider the Torah?

I think about that because the "mechesiam" of forgiveness of sin bulls and goats has passed away with the sacrifice of Messiah of the Spotless Lamb of God on the cross.... Messiah/Jesus.... it was fulfilled not passed away.... not one yod....

But does not the New Testament say be holy because God is holy? what do you measure your holiness? The NT days to not add or take away from the Word of God.... Which Books are God breathed? Has we will lay down our plow shares and neighbor does not have to teach neighbor because everyone is full of the knowledge of God fulfilled yet? does the lion lay down with the lamb?

 

[jacob_g]

I think about that because the "mechesiam" of forgiveness of sin bulls and goats has passed away with the sacrifice of Messiah of the Spotless Lamb of God on the cross.... Messiah/Jesus.... it was fulfilled not passed away.... not one yod....

But does not the New Testament say be holy because God is holy? what do you measure your holiness? The NT days to not add or take away from the Word of God.... Which Books are God breathed? Has we will lay down our plow shares and neighbor does not have to teach neighbor because everyone is full of the knowledge of God fulfilled yet? does the lion lay down with the lamb?

*mechanism*