The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[garee]

I do believe it is a part of the "desolaTIONS [plural]" are determined, but is NOT the "abominaTION ot desolaTION [SINGULAR]" that Jesus was referring [in Matt24] back to in Daniel, which is not the PLURALS in Dan9, but the SINGULAR in Dan12:11 "abomination [SINGULAR] that maketh desolate SET UP" (and providing specific "day-amounts," here and in this chpt 12)

The Amil position works best. We are in the last day the beginning of the period of time called a "thousand years."
Believers walk by faith not after those who number days and people . (sign seekers)

"Thousand years" is clearly is used as a metaphor in the 6 times it is used that parable (Revelation 20) The same thousand years is used the other 3 times. In that way the word of god defines the usage of words.

The abomination of desolation was made to no effect completely when Jesus walked out of the temple made with human hands. The temple was the object . the veil was rent .There was no Jewish flesh sitting in the holy of holies.

Satan could no longer deceive the other nations in that exclusive way .

There still no man siting in the holy of holies. there are those that eulogize stone lifeless objects as idol images. Crying out to something for something?.

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation20 :3

His gig was up and he fell into that described in Revelation above

When his foot stepped out the temple was made void its work of deceiving the nations.

But you did not let me. Now your house will be left completely empty. I tell you, you will not see me again until that time when you will say, ‘Welcome! God bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’” Mathew 23 :38-39

Christians beginning with Abel are considered the temple of God. Members of a spiritual body that make the bride of wife of Christ. This was even before the temporal one temple in the wilderness .It finished its 1 time use.. .This was before God gave over the faithless Jew used to represent all of mankind. Kings in Israel .Giving them over to do what they should not desired because of their jealousy for the surrounding pagan nations

Why construct another abomination of desolation? There will be no temple in the new order .We walk by faith the unseen holy of holies place.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your error is in centering on "trib/wrath" and combining it with some abstract disdain for the pretrib concept.

You ignore or reframe our verses.

You are unbiblical plain and simple.

By all means, please post scripture you claim is a pre-trib rapture, and we will begin dialogue.

Idle and empty claims are silent, post scripture with your explanation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Amil position works best. We are in the last day the beginning of the period of time called a "thousand years."

Are you meaning to saying "we are in the BEGINNING of the period of time called '1000 yrs'" (as though there will be the MIDDLE and the LATTER parts of it STILL YET TO COME)? or am I mis-reading you?

Believers walk by faith not after those who number days and people . (sign seekers)

And yet God "numbers" the 144,000 very specifically.

And provides a profuse amount of other very detailed "numbers," in very precise and specific ways throughout Scripture. Shall we disregard all of these, as fluffy and unimportant, or rather, as "unspiritual"?? Or, not really as having been coming "from God" to the written page, I assume??

"Thousand years" is clearly is used as a metaphor in the 6 times it is used that parable (Revelation 20) The same thousand years is used the other 3 times. In that way the word of god defines the usage of words.

I agree, but not in the way you're intending.

By using "is as a thousand years," He is expecting the reader to picture in their minds "a [literal] thousand years," in the "comparison" ['is as']. Not some "un-known" one, but a "known" one.

The abomination of desolation was made to no effect completely when Jesus walked out of the temple made with human hands. The temple was the object . the veil was rent .There was no Jewish flesh sitting in the holy of holies.

When the "veil was rent," who said there would be "Jewish flesh" sitting there? That's an odd interpretation, if you ask me. lol

First of all the word "sitteth" speaks only of "in the temple of God" (not necessarily saying "IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES," for this, see... you made that part up... and you based that on what Matt24:15 says, I assume, as "standing in the holy place" [re: the AOD / and "SET UP" Dan12:11 that this relates to... and which verse and chpt supplies related "day-amounts" and other timing details in this chpt (cluing us in, that this chpt HAS NOT HAPPENED YET ) ])

Satan could no longer deceive the other nations in that exclusive way .
There still no man siting in the holy of holies.

That "sitting" thing occurs at a specific point in time in the future trib years (its mid-point)... but roughly 3.5 years before THAT point in time, the trib yrs START at the FIRST SEAL and [/which is] "the man of sin BE REVEALED"... and before THAT point in time, "our Rapture"/"THE Departure" must come "FIRST" ...so lotsa things transpire before the particular events unfold upon the earth you are speaking of...

there are those that eulogize stone lifeless objects as idol images. Crying out to something for something?.
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation20 :3
His gig was up and he fell into that described in Revelation above

hmmm. No offense, but... whatever.

lol

When his foot stepped out the temple was made void its work of deceiving the nations.

But you did not let me. Now your house will be left completely empty. I tell you, you will not see me again until that time when you will say, ‘Welcome! God bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’” Mathew 23 :38-39

Christians beginning with Abel are considered the temple of God.

So you are saying you have no problem with there existing "two temples" [not counting persons individually] on the earth AT THE SAME TIME? Or am I mis-reading you?

Members of a spiritual body that make the bride of wife of Christ. This was even before the temporal one temple in the wilderness .

Okay, so you are saying "the tabernacle in the wilderness" was also "the temple"? (furnishings being distinct as they were, and all?)

It finished its 1 time use.. .This was before God gave over the faithless Jew used to represent all of mankind. Kings in Israel .Giving them over to do what they should not desired because of their jealousy for the surrounding pagan nations

Why construct another abomination of desolation?

I believe the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" Jesus spoke of in Matt24:15, "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" was the reference to it in Dan12:11... which TIME PERIOD *ENDS* with Daniel physically being resurrected "to stand again [on the earth]" (the *definition* of "resurrection").

I assume you mean to say that Jesus made "the [structure of the] temple" (in Jerusalem) TO BE the A[singular]OD?

There will be no temple in the new order .We walk by faith the unseen holy of holies place.

"will be"? as in, "future"? Or do you mean "now"?

Again, Paul never uses "the definite article" ['the'] with the word "temple" when speaking of us/'the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY'... he just uses "temple".

[and for the readers: yet in one of the two references to "future" events where "the temple of God" is mentioned, the words "the temple" and the "THEM that worship THEREIN" are distinguished / kept clearly DISTINCT]


That's all I got time for atm... = )

 

[PlainWord]

Watermark's the [user-]name. =D

[perhaps you need your glasses re-adjusted, like I do ]



Disagree.

And I had explained why. (You didn't read past my first line, did you? It's completely obvious you did not, or at least did not care to. )

So...

Since Luke 21:8-11 is parallel with Matthew 24:4-8 and Mark 13:5-8...

and because Lk21:12 (the verse coming after those sections) says "But BEFORE ALL THESE" (and then names the things that must play out BEFORE Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11[the beginning of birth pangs])...

THIS MEANS that Matt24:4-8 [let alone what follows] is NOT parallel (or "the companion") to Luke 21:12-24, but instead...

is parallel (or "the companion") to Luke 21:8-11 (just as I had pointed out--one must get it straight that Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11 are parallel with each other and therefore the "But BEFORE ALL THESE" beginning of birth pangs can happen, the 70ad events must take place first! [spelled out in Lk21:12-24]),

and so... therefore Luke21:12-24[/70ad events] must ALSO play out "BEFORE" Matt24:4-8 (let alone the parts that follow in that passage, as you framed it, "...thru v.28").

Thus, your post has totally MISSED the actual CHRONOLOGY spelled out in these passages.

I know it can be hard work... but the first step in grasping the SEQUENCE these passages show, is to EXAMINE
Luke 21:8-11 / Matthew 24:4-8 / Mark 13:5-8 [/'the beginning of birth PANGS'], UNDERSTAND they are the SAME EVENTS,
and then... ACKNOWLEDGE that v.12 INFORMS us that vv.12-24a [the 70ad events] must play out BEFORE THOSE!

...and that THEREFORE, what *you* had said about Lk21:12-24 being "companion" to Matthew 24:1-28 CANNOT be TRUE!



Did I say that?

Not exactly.

I said, v.24 has LISTED ITEMS that unfold over a lengthy time period, and we must note the "UNTIL" (which relates to other prophecies, just as we see spelled out in the "UNTIL" of Acts 3:21)



Except, again, if you take the first mis-steps, as you have, all you're doing is attempting to "match phrases," but at the expense of butchering "chronology". Bad move.



No he doesn't.

I do believe it is a part of the "desolaTIONS [plural]" are determined, but is NOT the "abominaTION ot desolaTION [SINGULAR]" that Jesus was referring [in Matt24] back to in Daniel, which is not the PLURALS in Dan9, but the SINGULAR in Dan12:11 "abomination [SINGULAR] that maketh desolate SET UP" (and providing specific "day-amounts," here and in this chpt 12)



I agree that Luke 21:12-24a speaks of the 70ad events. But vv.8-11 [and its parallels] COME AFTER that (including the PARALLEL of Matt24:4-8! [Matt24:4-8 is NOT PARALLEL with Lk21:12-24!! see... Lk21:12-24a COMES BEFORE Matt24:4-8 & parallels]



But you are missing the point of the "But BEFORE ALL THESE (BEFORE ALL of the BEGINNING of birth PANGS, the 70ad events of vv.12-24a must play out FIRST--this is not what you are saying)



You need to marinate in Step #1 for a good long while, and then grasp what the "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE" means (with regard to how the 70ad events [vv.12-24a] must play out BEFORE those. THAT is a matter of chronology, that you are blurring the distinctions regarding, thus coming up with a marred picture of "what happens when, in relation to what other thing/s" You're butchering it royally )


Good talking with you again, PlainWoop.

LOL>

Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

=

Mat 24:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

No mental gymnastics needed. No slicing and dicing DivineWaferMark. The AoD of Mat 24 are the armies of Luke 21 as they are the triggers to flee to the mountains.

 

[PlainWord]

Do you see a hypocrite?

You state Hitler nor World War II is found in the Bible, and in the same breath you quote the unsaved Jew, Josephus, Real Big Smiles!

What part of the Bible is Josephus in?

Then you claim 6 million Jews being "Slaughtered" by Hitler dosent compare to 67-70AD Jerusalem seige, a joke!

You can't be taken seriously

Now we are bolding everything. How am I supposed to know which parts of your reply are the really important parts now?

I state facts and I source any historian who records fulfillment. Josephus? Never met the man. Neither Hitler or WWII are in the Bible? I can't find Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Chairman Mao, Stalin either. These dudes killed a fair share of people too. But again, it isn't about body count, it is about pure suffering. Tribulation = suffering, not death. If it was about death rates, 70 AD was still worse. There were about 15 million Jews at the start of WWII, roughly the same as today. Hitler killed 6 million of them or 40%. The Great Tribulation of 70 AD killed 93%. No nation has seen a death rate that high.

Josephus records the suffering of the siege in great detail. Mothers eating their babies, men eating their leather belts, etc. Bodies lined the streets by the hundred of thousands baking in the summer heat. Can you imagine the stench? People were begging for death. It would be one thing if 70 AD Jerusalem didn't suffer like it did, then maybe I'd have no claim of fulfillment. The only eyewitness to record these events was Josephus. Are we to ignore him entirely?

Again, Josephus says this:

That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.

Jesus says this:

21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again...
He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Both cite the wickedness of that generation and claim their suffering was the worst the world had known. So, how am I off my rocker for seeing a match?

It would be one thing if Preterism had no answers for anything you futurists claim is unfulfilled but we have answers for everything. You may not like or agree with our answers, but we have them and they are uncannily similar to the events you say are future.. Another problem you futurists have is if 70 AD wasn't the fulfillment of Revelation and the Olivet, then where in the Bible are the 70 AD events recorded? Gen 11 to Rev 19 is the well documented account of the history of the Jewish people. You mean to tell me their ending was omitted? Are you telling me those wicked Jews who killed the Son of God, got off Scotch-free? You mean to tell me God is going to punish some other generation 100s of times removed for the crimes of the first century disbelieving Jews? Again, it would be one thing if they weren't punished but they were. Titus killed every last remaining Jewish priest. Did you know that?

 

[PlainWord]

My holy bible

You quote the adulterer Josephus as if he was an honest man?

A Jewish traitor who turned his back on the Jewish people, as he supported the Romans in their 70AD destruction in Jerusalem

Josephus was nothing more than a propaganda machine for Rome, equalivent to Hitler's Joseph Goebbels, a favorite of the Roman rulers.

Wikipedia: Josephus

Vespasian arranged for Josephus to marry a captured Jewish woman, whom he later divorced. About 71 CE, Josephus married an Alexandrian Jewish woman as his third wife. They had three sons, of whom only Flavius Hyrcanus survived childhood. Josephus later divorced his third wife. Around 75 CE, he married his fourth wife, a Greek Jewish woman from Crete, who was a member of a distinguished family. They had a happy married life and two sons, Flavius Justus and Flavius Simonides Agrippa.

I know all of this so if anything, he downplayed the cruelty of the siege and the Roman treatment of the Jews. He tried to get them to surrender to avoid any further suffering. But the tyrants who were in control of the city wouldn't listen. For the longest time, the tyrants, especially Simon and John, fought more against each other and tormented and killed their own people before they cared what was going on outside. They torched their own food supply. They defiled the temple and carried on with gay orgies inside. They, and their band of robbers, would run around killing their own people with swords for sport. They would torture people to get their food. Being a traitor to that leadership probably isn't that bad. I might have been disloyal to them too.

 

[PlainWord]

Ok I checked it out. Let's pause for a moment and look at one of the first things the website says:

"If Jesus returned in His generation as He promised (MARK 14:61-62, JOHN 21:22-23 and MATTHEW 24), then our hope of heaven is secure. If not, then we as Christians “are of all people most to be pitied.” (1 Cor 15:19)"

Where to begin. First off, Jesus never said in any of verses provided above (Mark 14:61-62, John 12:22-23, or all of Matthew 24) that he was going to return in His generation. They clearly didn't bank on anyone actually looking up the verses they provided. Please see for yourself.

Do you believe that Christians are of all people the most pitied? That the only hope of heaven is if Jesus returned in his generation? By the way, the Bible says how we can have a hope of heaven in Jesus, but it doesn't say "Believe Jesus returned in his generation to be saved." That website tells you to trust in something other than Jesus to be saved. Hopefully that's part of the 10% of things you disagree with.

I haven't even combed through the rest of it. This might take a while.

I think since he believes the resurrection happen in that first century generation also at the time Christ returned that he is linking the two. He isn't alone in this belief. Famous Christian apologist C S Lewis had this to say on the topic in an essay called, "the World's Last Night."

“‘Say what you like,’ we shall be told, ‘the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, “this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.” And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.’ It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible. Yet how teasing, also, that within fourteen words of it should come the statement ‘But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.’ The one exhibition of error and the one confession of ignorance.”

Fortunately, it was C S Lewis who was wrong. Christ did return to that generation and everything He predicted would happened to that generation.

 

[PlainWord]

John 14 (YLT):
1 `Let not your heart be troubled, believe in God, also in me believe;
2 in the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you;
3 and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be;
4 and whither I go away ye have known, and the way ye have known.'
5 Thomas saith to him, `Sir, we have not known whither thou goest away, and how are we able to know the way?'
6 Jesus saith to him, `I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me;

Mat 24:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
31 and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Rev 1:
7 Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen!
8 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'

1 Thes 4:
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

Acts 1:
9 And these things having said -- they beholding -- he was taken up, and a cloud did receive him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in his going on, then, lo, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, `Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven.'

I used the Young's Literal Translation for this. For the life of me, I cannot find where it says Jesus was to touch down on Earth again. In John 14 it seems He comes but receives them to Himself so that where He is, they will also be. In 1 Thes 4, He comes down, but it doesn't say all the way down. Instead they meet the Lord in air. Does anyone have a verse with Jesus standing or walking on the earth again? So far it appears He is staying in the sky.

 

[cv5]

John 14 (YLT):
1 `Let not your heart be troubled, believe in God, also in me believe;
2 in the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you;
3 and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be;
4 and whither I go away ye have known, and the way ye have known.'
5 Thomas saith to him, `Sir, we have not known whither thou goest away, and how are we able to know the way?'
6 Jesus saith to him, `I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me;

Mat 24:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
31 and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Rev 1:
7 Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen!
8 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'

1 Thes 4:
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

Acts 1:
9 And these things having said -- they beholding -- he was taken up, and a cloud did receive him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in his going on, then, lo, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, `Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven.'

I used the Young's Literal Translation for this. For the life of me, I cannot find where it says Jesus was to touch down on Earth again. In John 14 it seems He comes but receives them to Himself so that where He is, they will also be. In 1 Thes 4, He comes down, but it doesn't say all the way down. Instead they meet the Lord in air. Does anyone have a verse with Jesus standing or walking on the earth again? So far it appears He is staying in the sky.

Zech 14:4

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

 

[Absolutely]

Post a verse that you believe supports a pre-trib rapture, we will let scripture interprets itself, I'm waiting for the challenge

Rev 14 has a catching away during the gt.

1 thes 4 says the dead rise FIRST....Before the living.

No matter how you slice it the first resurrection is BEFORE the gt.

You have already muddied that up before repositioning rev 14.
No doubt you have some version of it .

 

[Absolutely]

Start posting verses of your proclaimed pre-trib rapture, I look forward to your response

No Novel Sized Responses, We Have Time And Space, Keep It Simple

I already have.
Your reply is "you have no verses"

I already showed you the verses.

You have tactics...not a level debate.

I will go back and copy and paste since you do not want to debate.

A true bible student would have engaged the verses with me.

You hide from a true debate

"Post your pretrib verses"

Ok,how many times???

 

[Absolutely]

My holy bible

You quote the adulterer Josephus as if he was an honest man?

A Jewish traitor who turned his back on the Jewish people, as he supported the Romans in their 70AD destruction in Jerusalem

Josephus was nothing more than a propaganda machine for Rome, equalivent to Hitler's Joseph Goebbels, a favorite of the Roman rulers.

Wikipedia: Josephus

Vespasian arranged for Josephus to marry a captured Jewish woman, whom he later divorced. About 71 CE, Josephus married an Alexandrian Jewish woman as his third wife. They had three sons, of whom only Flavius Hyrcanus survived childhood. Josephus later divorced his third wife. Around 75 CE, he married his fourth wife, a Greek Jewish woman from Crete, who was a member of a distinguished family. They had a happy married life and two sons, Flavius Justus and Flavius Simonides Agrippa.

That is called destroying the messanger.

Usually invoked when a oposition is weak and the messanger has the upper hand.

 

[cv5]

Post a verse that you believe supports a pre-trib rapture, we will let scripture interprets itself, I'm waiting for the challenge

TheDivineWatermark has already wrecked your thesis. Why haven't you admitted to defeat?

 

[Absolutely]

By all means, please post scripture you claim is a pre-trib rapture, and we will begin dialogue.

Idle and empty claims are silent, post scripture with your explanation.

1)Lot and noah,
2) The foolish virgins MAT 25,
3)the 2 escape verses,
4)the last supper dialog,
5) the catching away of JEWS IN rev 14 during the gt.
6)W/O the jews gathered in rev 14 DURING THE GT the label "first fruits " has zero continuity. IOW firstfruits of what?...answer;the gathered jews of rev 14 right after the 144k firstfruits.
7) Rev 19 the church ALREADY IN HEAVEN AND HAS BECOME THE WIFE DURING THE GT.

8) the ac kills ALL WITH OUT THE MARK. There is no truth to you postribs belief having the church run from cave to cave during the gt.

"And it was given the ac power to overcome the saints"

(Ahem,we see billions in heaven murdered by ac STANDING BY THE THROME DURING THE GT.
9) we are not appointed to wrath....but you guys are looking forward to exactly that.

10)the wise virgins were waiting. Watching and waiting earnestly. They set aside their lives to commit to being ready.
You guys mock that.
11) every catching away is PEACETIME SETTING. (You guys insist the OPPOSITE and need that reframed.
12) THE ONLY destruction setting of catching away is the 144 k,the main Jewish harvest, and the 2 witnesses CLEARLY DURING THE GT.
....BUT NO CHURCH REMOVAL IN A WARTME/DESTROYED EARTH SETTING.
13)ONE TAKEN,ONE LEFT.....Ok,Jesus did you say when? Yes, before the flood dynamic.
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE THE FLOOD they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 THEN shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


YOUR DEAL INVERTS OR MUDDIES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM

 

[Absolutely]

Off the top of my head
My notes have more

So that is 13+ to zero.
Your deal is in ruins

 

[PlainWord]

Zech 14:4

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

This was God the Father in 160s BC during the Maccabees. We saw God's presence come down a lot in the OT.

 

[PlainWord]

TheDivineWatermark has already wrecked your thesis. Why haven't you admitted to defeat?

what are you talking about. I have destroyed everyone of his arguments, and now yours too. You guys think the OT prophets had nothing to say to the people of their day. My goodness, nothing they wrote about as an event to happen is in our future.

 

[Truth7t7]

No Nontal gymnastics needed. No slicing and dicing DivineWaferMark. The AoD of Mat 24 are the armies of Luke 21 as they are the triggers to flee to the mountains.

 

[Truth7t7]

No mental gymnastics needed. No slicing and dicing DivineWaferMark. The AoD of Mat 24 are the armies of Luke 21 as they are the triggers to flee to the mountains.

Your claim is 100% (False)

No the Armies are not the AoD?

The future Man of Sin will bring the AoD!

Daniel 9:27KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

1)Lot and noah,
2) The foolish virgins MAT 25,
3)the 2 escape verses,
4)the last supper dialog,
5) the catching away of JEWS IN rev 14 during the gt.
6)W/O the jews gathered in rev 14 DURING THE GT the label "first fruits " has zero continuity. IOW firstfruits of what?...answer;the gathered jews of rev 14 right after the 144k firstfruits.
7) Rev 19 the church ALREADY IN HEAVEN AND HAS BECOME THE WIFE DURING THE GT.

8) the ac kills ALL WITH OUT THE MARK. There is no truth to you postribs belief having the church run from cave to cave during the gt.

"And it was given the ac power to overcome the saints"

(Ahem,we see billions in heaven murdered by ac STANDING BY THE THROME DURING THE GT.
9) we are not appointed to wrath....but you guys are looking forward to exactly that.

10)the wise virgins were waiting. Watching and waiting earnestly. They set aside their lives to commit to being ready.
You guys mock that.
11) every catching away is PEACETIME SETTING. (You guys insist the OPPOSITE and need that reframed.
12) THE ONLY destruction setting of catching away is the 144 k,the main Jewish harvest, and the 2 witnesses CLEARLY DURING THE GT.
....BUT NO CHURCH REMOVAL IN A WARTME/DESTROYED EARTH SETTING.
13)ONE TAKEN,ONE LEFT.....Ok,Jesus did you say when? Yes, before the flood dynamic.
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE THE FLOOD they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 THEN shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


YOUR DEAL INVERTS OR MUDDIES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM

We will start with the Noah claim

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is devoted to the "Second Coming" "End Of The World"

You falsely suggest Matthew 24:38-42 is a (Pre-Trib Rapture), as verse 36 below clearly shows,

(No Man Knows The Day Or Hour)

(Basic Logic)

You falsely claim this coming is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions upon earth being left behind knowing the day and hour of this coming of Jesus Christ.

It's sad when you can't admit to the basic truth, and this is as basic as it gets.

Matthew 24:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.