The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[Truth7t7]

1)Lot and noah,
2) The foolish virgins MAT 25,
3)the 2 escape verses,
4)the last supper dialog,
5) the catching away of JEWS IN rev 14 during the gt.
6)W/O the jews gathered in rev 14 DURING THE GT the label "first fruits " has zero continuity. IOW firstfruits of what?...answer;the gathered jews of rev 14 right after the 144k firstfruits.
7) Rev 19 the church ALREADY IN HEAVEN AND HAS BECOME THE WIFE DURING THE GT.

8) the ac kills ALL WITH OUT THE MARK. There is no truth to you postribs belief having the church run from cave to cave during the gt.

"And it was given the ac power to overcome the saints"

(Ahem,we see billions in heaven murdered by ac STANDING BY THE THROME DURING THE GT.
9) we are not appointed to wrath....but you guys are looking forward to exactly that.

10)the wise virgins were waiting. Watching and waiting earnestly. They set aside their lives to commit to being ready.
You guys mock that.
11) every catching away is PEACETIME SETTING. (You guys insist the OPPOSITE and need that reframed.
12) THE ONLY destruction setting of catching away is the 144 k,the main Jewish harvest, and the 2 witnesses CLEARLY DURING THE GT.
....BUT NO CHURCH REMOVAL IN A WARTME/DESTROYED EARTH SETTING.
13)ONE TAKEN,ONE LEFT.....Ok,Jesus did you say when? Yes, before the flood dynamic.
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE THE FLOOD they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 THEN shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


YOUR DEAL INVERTS OR MUDDIES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM

The ten Virgin parable is also about the "Second Coming" and no man knows the day or hour, as you falsely claim this is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions being left behind on earth knowing the day and hour.

Matthew 25:10-13KJV
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[Truth7t7]

TheDivineWatermark has already wrecked your thesis. Why haven't you admitted to defeat?

No such thing, I look forward to your claim and scripture presented of a pre-trib rapture?

Waiting

 

[Phoneman-777]

The heresy is primarily in the rejection of the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the real, visible, tangible, physical Second Coming of Christ with all His saints and angels, to the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19 and many other passages), and events to follow.

As an OPPONENT of Jesuit Preterism, I do not feel it is heretical to reject the above scenario...just good exegesis. The rapture of the saints happens at the Second Coming, not 7 years prior, because 2 Peter 3:10-12 says when Jesus comes as a "thief" to rapture us, there's going to be such a catastrophic cataclysmic upheaval that no life will be sustainable whatsoever, not 7 minutes let alone "7 years of tribulation". The return of Christ 1,000 years later with all His saints is when the wicked are resurrected, judged, then cast into the Lake of Fire, after which we'll witness Jesus create the "Earth made new".

"According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history.

Jesuit Preterism says Antichrist came already way back when, but the equally flawed idea of Jesuit Futurism claims Antichrist's coming is still future. Both these Jesuit ideas were sent into the world as a diversionary tactic by the Jesuits when the Protestant Reformers had correctly identified the Antichrist as the Roman Catholic Papacy. They essentially told the world, "If you're looking for Antichrist, look to the past, the future - anywhere but at us." So, if you're going to condemn one bad Jesuit idea, please don't forget to condemn the other

 

[Truth7t7]

As an OPPONENT of Jesuit Preterism, I do not feel it is heretical to reject the above scenario...just good exegesis. The rapture of the saints happens at the Second Coming, not 7 years prior, because 2 Peter 3:10-12 says when Jesus comes as a "thief" to rapture us, there's going to be such a catastrophic cataclysmic upheaval that no life will be sustainable whatsoever, not 7 minutes let alone "7 years of tribulation". The return of Christ 1,000 years later with all His saints is when the wicked are resurrected, judged, then cast into the Lake of Fire, after which we'll witness Jesus create the "Earth made new".
Jesuit Preterism says Antichrist came already way back when, but the equally flawed idea of Jesuit Futurism claims Antichrist's coming is still future. Both these Jesuit ideas were sent into the world as a diversionary tactic by the Jesuits when the Protestant Reformers had correctly identified the Antichrist as the Roman Catholic Papacy. They essentially told the world, "If you're looking for Antichrist, look to the past, the future - anywhere but at us." So, if you're going to condemn one bad Jesuit idea, please don't forget to condemn the other

There will be no future 1,000 kingdom on this earth, with (Mortal Humans) present, found no place in scripture, nowhere!

Jesus Christ returns immediately after the future tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth 2 Peter 3:10

Revelation 20:1-6 below is 100% in the Lord's spiritual, no kingdom on earth or mortal humans are seen (None)

100% Spiritual Seen Below, No Kingdom On Earth Or Humans Seen.

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Phoneman-777]

There will be no future 1,000 kingdom on this earth, with (Mortal Humans) present, found no place in scripture, nowhere!

Revelation 20:1-6 below is 100% in the Lord's spiritual, no kingdom on earth or mortal humans are seen (None)

100% Spiritual Seen Below, No Kingdom On Earth Or Humans Seen.

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Satan will be bound in "chains of circumstance" with no one to tempt and nothing to do except contemplate for 1,000 years all the ruin that he brought upon himself, his followers, and the good, good, very good Earth that God created for us. He and his angels will be reminded the entire time of the destructive power of sin...but they will not change.

As soon as New Jerusalem descends with all the saints and angels and God inside when the 1,000 years are complete, Satan will immediately set to work marshaling the newly resurrected wicked around the city for the final battle of Armageddon, which is over before it even begins. The White Throne of Jesus will appear high above and God's Spirit will so completely convict them of their sin and that they deserve the destruction that is about to befall them that they will fall down and worship just before the fire falls down upon them...they thought they could escape bowing the knee in the First Life, but in the Second Life they will bow as surely as Jesus is King of kings, just before they suffer the Second Death.

 

[Truth7t7]

Satan will be bound in "chains of circumstance" with no one to tempt and nothing to do except contemplate for 1,000 years all the ruin that he brought upon himself, his followers, and the good, good, very good Earth that God created for us. He and his angels will be reminded the entire time of the destructive power of sin...but they will not change.

As soon as New Jerusalem descends with all the saints and angels and God inside when the 1,000 years are complete, Satan will immediately set to work marshaling the newly resurrected wicked around the city for the final battle of Armageddon, which is over before it even begins. The White Throne of Jesus will appear high above and God's Spirit will so completely convict them of their sin and that they deserve the destruction that is about to befall them that they will fall down and worship just before the fire falls down upon them...they thought they could escape bowing the knee in the First Life, but in the Second Life they will bow as surely as Jesus is King of kings, just before they suffer the Second Death.

I agree with your timeline, however you added much drama to the event as if this was a screen write for a movie, you missed your calling

The non literal 1,000 years is taking place now, at the end of the tribulation Satan will be loosed to deceive the Nations to the final battle, Jesus Returns in fire and final judgement, the righteous pass through the fire to the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem, the wicked are caught in the lake of fire for eternity.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Zechariah 13:9KJV
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I agree with your timeline, however you added much drama to the event as if this was a screen write for a movie, you missed your calling

The non literal 1,000 years is taking place now, at the end of the tribulation Satan will be loosed to deceive the Nations to the final battle, Jesus Returns in fire and final judgement, the righteous pass through the fire to the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem, the wicked are caught in the lake of fire for eternity.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Zechariah 13:9KJV
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

LOL King Nebuchadnezzer would toss me into his fiery furnace for graffiti-ing all up his great wall of Babylon.

I think the 1,000 years are literal because it takes place after Jesus comes back and by that time prophecies will have ceased. That means symbolic time will have ceased.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL King Nebuchadnezzer would toss me into his fiery furnace for graffiti-ing all up his great wall of Babylon.

I think the 1,000 years are literal because it takes place after Jesus comes back and by that time prophecies will have ceased. That means symbolic time will have ceased.

You have Jesus coming back, and Satan being loosed after 1,000 just as dispensationalism teaches?

 

[garee]

TheDivineWatermark, Are you meaning to saying "we are in the BEGINNING of the period of time called '1000 yrs'" (as though there will be the MIDDLE and the LATTER parts of it STILL YET TO COME)? or am I mis-reading you?

Thanks for the reply.

I am saying the metaphor "thousand years" in that parables found in Revelation 20. It represents a unknown amount of time .Beginning in what is called the last days. Signaled by the renting of the veil .The beginning of tribulation one never seen before or ever again .

God does not give exact number of days or people .He desires we trust the unseen matters of faith. Its a evil generation that seeks after a sign. He will come like a thief in the night.

And yet God "numbers" the 144,000 very specifically.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

And provides a profuse amount of other very detailed "numbers," in very precise and specific ways throughout Scripture. Shall we disregard all of these, as fluffy and unimportant, or rather, as "unspiritual"?? Or, not really as having been coming "from God" to the written page, I assume??

Not fluffy and unimportant but a metaphor used to give the valuable information .(walk by faith.) Not of the number that number time and people .Flufy is for the sign and wonders people always wondering never putting the trust in the parables. to reveal the non fluffy understanding by which a person can believe and not wonder and marvel How many when?

I agree, but not in the way you're intending.

By using "is as a thousand years," He is expecting the reader to picture in their minds "a [literal] thousand years," in the "comparison" ['is as']. Not some "un-known" one, but a "known" one.

By using the metaphor thousand years he is expecting men to walk by faith . The 144,000 simply represents all of those who are redeemed Old testament and new. Tribe as gates apostles as walls make up the whole spirutl unseen hose of God made up of many lively stones (144,000). Called the golden measure (not literal) the measure of man measuring themselves by themselves,

When

the "veil was rent," who said there would be "Jewish flesh" sitting there? That's an odd interpretation, if you ask me. lol

Not so odd when you look at the outcome. . having nothing to do with the flesh of any nation. Satan fell from deceiving all the nations in that way. The curtain was opened and their was no great and mighty Oz the wizard (father of lies ) was exposed. . . sent him back to Kanas chained him up .

First of all the word "sitteth" speaks only of "in the temple of God" (not necessarily saying "IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES," for this, see... you made that part up... and you based that on what Matt24:15 says, I assume, as "standing in the holy place" [re: the AOD / and "SET UP" Dan12:11 that this relates to... and which verse and chpt supplies related "day-amounts" and other timing details in this chpt (cluing us in, that this chpt HAS NOT HAPPENED YET ) ])

It has happened, Its a evil generation measuring themselves by themselves, trying to number that which cannot literally numbered or counted .

There is no temple in heaven. The holy of Holy represent the unseen place of God's glory. When the veil was rent it became apparent to the other nations that God was not a respecter of the corrupted flesh of mankind .It never was about any flesh to in include Jewish .

Why would we set up another abomination of desolation . That would seem to be #3 some are hoping for .For some odd reason

But not those who walk by faith .They understand they are the temple .Just as was with Abel before the temporal use of Jewish flesh to represent the flesh of mankind.. Many are still pretending a its a Jewish religion as if God was a man and had Jewish flesh. Jesus said his Jewish flesh profits for nothing. Why try and change that by fusing to walk after the unseen glory of God. The holy of holies place.

So you are saying you have no problem with there existing "two temples" [not counting persons individually] on the earth AT THE SAME TIME? Or am I mis-reading you?

I am saying we are the temple not made with human hands and there is no temple in heaven .

Okay, so you are saying "the tabernacle in the wilderness" was also "the temple"? (furnishings being distinct as they were, and all?)

The wilderness was the only one that God moved men to construct .Its was moveable and God used it to show the gospel to many nation .Its purpose ended when they reached the propmised land , the temporal signified as the eternal new heaven. Again no temple there .

Revelation 21:22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

I believe the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" Jesus spoke of in Matt24:15, "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" was the reference to it in Dan12:11... which TIME PERIOD *ENDS* with Daniel physically being resurrected "to stand again [on the earth]" (the *definition* of "resurrection").

Daniel physically being resurrected ?? (Danger)

Dan represents the spirit of judgment as those under the letter of the law death .Raising skeletons to stand on earth .Is a Catholic works of necromancy .

I assume you mean to say that Jesus made "the [structure of the] temple" (in Jerusalem) TO BE the A[singular]OD?

"will be"? as in, "future"? Or do you mean "now"?

It was a A[singular]OD *( eye sore to God) called a abomination .(Kings in Israel ) Its gone a few bricks to cry out to in false worship.

 

[garee]

Now we are bolding everything. How am I supposed to know which parts of your reply are the really important parts now?

I state facts and I source any historian who records fulfillment. Josephus? Never met the man. Neither Hitler or WWII are in the Bible? I can't find Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Chairman Mao, Stalin either. These dudes killed a fair share of people too. But again, it isn't about body count, it is about pure suffering. Tribulation = suffering, not death. If it was about death rates, 70 AD was still worse. There were about 15 million Jews at the start of WWII, roughly the same as today. Hitler killed 6 million of them or 40%. The Great Tribulation of 70 AD killed 93%. No nation has seen a death rate that high.

Josephus records the suffering of the siege in great detail. Mothers eating their babies, men eating their leather belts, etc. Bodies lined the streets by the hundred of thousands baking in the summer heat. Can you imagine the stench? People were begging for death. It would be one thing if 70 AD Jerusalem didn't suffer like it did, then maybe I'd have no claim of fulfillment. The only eyewitness to record these events was Josephus. Are we to ignore him entirely?

Again, Josephus says this:

That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.

Jesus says this:

21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again...
He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Both cite the wickedness of that generation and claim their suffering was the worst the world had known. So, how am I off my rocker for seeing a match?

It would be one thing if Preterism had no answers for anything you futurists claim is unfulfilled but we have answers for everything. You may not like or agree with our answers, but we have them and they are uncannily similar to the events you say are future.. Another problem you futurists have is if 70 AD wasn't the fulfillment of Revelation and the Olivet, then where in the Bible are the 70 AD events recorded? Gen 11 to Rev 19 is the well documented account of the history of the Jewish people. You mean to tell me their ending was omitted? Are you telling me those wicked Jews who killed the Son of God, got off Scotch-free? You mean to tell me God is going to punish some other generation 100s of times removed for the crimes of the first century disbelieving Jews? Again, it would be one thing if they weren't punished but they were. Titus killed every last remaining Jewish priest. Did you know that?

Josephus is not a source of faith and there were no more signs as wonders that needed to be fulfilled .Prophecy ended with John. The last book is still the book of Revelation. The political kingdoms of this world never become part of the picture. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, the things seen. We keep our focus us the unseen thing of faith, things of God. Not those of political nations . When the veil was rent the words it is finished came. Not it will be finished

The reformation began and is still doing its (sola scriptura) work of reforming restoring saints not political nations .

 

[PlainWord]

Your claim is 100% (False)

No the Armies are not the AoD?

The future Man of Sin will bring the AoD!

Daniel 9:27KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

No, you are WRONG yet again!!!

Luke defines the AoD of Mat 24 and Dan 9.

Lk 21: But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, (the next time this happened was in 67-70 AD) then know that its desolation is near (It was completely left desolate in 70 AD). 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains..."(The Christians escaped over the mountains to Pella in today's Jordan)

Mat 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Same trigger as in Luke. Thus the AoD were the Roman Armies of Titus)

Dan 9 And the people (Roman armies) of the prince (Titus was a prince) who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (Titus was the next person to come who destroyed the temple and city. It is so obvious, how can you not see this?). The end of it shall be with a flood (invading armies as I pointed out before), And till the end of the war desolations are determined (When the Roman war with the Jews ended, not one Jew was left in Jerusalem. It was left desolate).... And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate (Titus), Even until the consummation (completely destroyed by fire), which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. (Jewish people of 70 AD)”

Mat and Luke are companion passages, they discuss the same thing!! A pagan army with their pagan ensigns standing in or at the holy city is an abomination, worse when they entered the temple compound. This abomination is said to cause the desolation of Jerusalem. Titus' armies left Jerusalem desolate. When you have a perfectly good fulfillment less than 40 years after it was predicted, why ignore it and look for a 3rd temple and another AoD to destroy it?

The past Man of Sin (Titus) already did this. The timing of Daniel's 70 weeks takes you into the first century AD. It does NOT take you to 2020.

 

[PlainWord]

Josephus is not a source of faith and there were no more signs as wonders that needed to be fulfilled .Prophecy ended with John. The last book is still the book of Revelation. The political kingdoms of this world never become part of the picture. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, the things seen. We keep our focus us the unseen thing of faith, things of God. Not those of political nations . When the veil was rent the words it is finished came. Not it will be finished

The reformation began and is still doing its (sola scriptura) work of reforming restoring saints not political nations .

Josephus recorded the events of 66-70 AD. He recorded actual, historical fulfillment of multiple prophesies of multiple prophets including Jesus and John.

The redeeming work was completed at the Cross. But the wrath, vengeance and judgment for those responsible was not completed until the 7th bowl was poured out. From Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” Notice the "It is done!?" Who is talking about political nations?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No such thing, I look forward to your claim and scripture presented of a pre-trib rapture?

Waiting

Before we get into that (again), how 'bout you take a minute to do something for me/us...

please tell us the definition of the word in bold, in the verse quoted below:

"8 By this the Holy Spirit was signifying that the way into the holy places has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness] yet having a standing [G4714], 9 which is a symbol/parable for the present time [...]"



G4714 - https://biblehub.com/greek/4714.htm [definition at link; its 9 occurrences also listed at the right side]

What does this word mean, as used in this verse? And what is this word (the Greek word)?

Thanks. = )

 

[PlainWord]

We will start with the Noah claim

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is devoted to the "Second Coming" "End Of The World"

You falsely suggest Matthew 24:38-42 is a (Pre-Trib Rapture), as verse 36 below clearly shows,

(No Man Knows The Day Or Hour)

(Basic Logic)

You falsely claim this coming is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions upon earth being left behind knowing the day and hour of this coming of Jesus Christ.

It's sad when you can't admit to the basic truth, and this is as basic as it gets.

Matthew 24:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It is the end of the AGE, not the WORLD.

Look at the literal translation.

3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

No wonder you have everything wrong.

 

[PlainWord]

But as for that house, God had, for certain, long ago doomed it to the fire; and now that fatal day was come, according to the revolution of ages; - Josephus

The disciples confirmed that when Jesus was discussing the fall of the temple that this would mark the end of their age, not the entire planet.

 

[PlainWord]

The planet Earth does not end.

Ecclesiastes 1:4
One generation passes away, and another generation comes; But the earth abides forever.

Dan 7:
13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away.

Christ is not losing His dominion and His kingdom. The earth abides forever!! Correcting the folly of you futurists is a full-time job.

 

[Kolistus]

2) If you go Dispensationalist, in order to be consistent in your beilef system you have to believe that SAVED Jews are NOT Raptured. Saved Gentiles a pre-trib raptured; saved Jews are not. A partial rapture, I find a bit of an absurd belief. But...someone out there may very well believe that. And I would have to allow that as no more wrong than any of the other thousand beliefs people hold about Revelation.

No. All saved Jews will be pre-trib raptured along with the saved gentiles. There is no division in the body of Christ.

The 144 000 come AFTER the body of Christ has left the building. Nice try to misrepresent

 

[Absolutely]

We will start with the Noah claim

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is devoted to the "Second Coming" "End Of The World"

You falsely suggest Matthew 24:38-42 is a (Pre-Trib Rapture), as verse 36 below clearly shows,

(No Man Knows The Day Or Hour)

(Basic Logic)

You falsely claim this coming is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions upon earth being left behind knowing the day and hour of this coming of Jesus Christ.

It's sad when you can't admit to the basic truth, and this is as basic as it gets.

Matthew 24:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

What part of BEFORE THE FLOOD do you not understand.

You mean to tell me your entire stand is "after the flood" Noah was caught up?

Jesus invoked 2 dynamics

1)after the trib Jesus returns

2 )before the flood/trib /judgement. His people are taken.

Take a real close look. Just humor me:
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 THEN shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Vividly clear.....but you have yet to either see it or stop ignoring it.

You even posted part of the verse that halfway suited you...but in consistancy ignored its content.

You are not even serious are you?

 

[Absolutely]

Let's examine your belief;
""The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is devoted to the "Second Coming" "End Of The World"

You falsely suggest Matthew 24:38-42 is a (Pre-Trib Rapture), as verse 36 below clearly shows,

(No Man Knows The Day Or Hour)

(Basic Logic)

You falsely claim this coming is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions upon earth being left behind knowing the day and hour of this coming of Jesus Christ.

It's sad when you can't admit to the basic truth, and this is as basic as it gets.""

broad brushed sentences.

my post took in the meaning

your post simply ignored the meaning.

over and over you ignore scripture.

 

[Absolutely]

The ten Virgin parable is also about the "Second Coming" and no man knows the day or hour, as you falsely claim this is a Pre-Trib rapture, with millions being left behind on earth knowing the day and hour.

Matthew 25:10-13KJV
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

What do you think you proved?
Are you suggesting the virgins knew WHEN he was coming?

The parable clearly states they were waiting...not knowing when.

...you know....kinda like me.

Btw
In both noah and lot the inlaws were left behind...