Who Should Go, and Make Disciples?
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Hello @DesertWanderer, here are a few Scriptures that seem to speak directly to this.
It seems to me that we are the ones who are tasked with the various evangelistic efforts, including witnessing and apologetics. While we are clearly called to take part, we can never do so effectively apart from the power and the leading of the Holy Spirit, of course.
~Deut
p.s. - if we are not needed as His witnesses in this world .. Romans 10:17, what purpose do we serve (why wouldn't He take us home as soon as we've come to saving faith)
Isaiah 43
10 "You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
In order that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
Matthew 28
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mark 16
15 Jesus said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."
Acts 1
8 "You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
1 Peter 3
15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.
It seems to me that we are the ones who are tasked with the various evangelistic efforts, including witnessing and apologetics. While we are clearly called to take part, we can never do so effectively apart from the power and the leading of the Holy Spirit, of course.
~Deut
p.s. - if we are not needed as His witnesses in this world .. Romans 10:17, what purpose do we serve (why wouldn't He take us home as soon as we've come to saving faith)
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Hello again @DesertWanderer, I believe that we should also be involved in full-time missionary efforts to reach the lost, both near and far. Most of us are not full-time missionaries ourselves, but we can and should be directly involved with full-time missionary work through ongoing prayer and financial support.
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - here's another quote that I have come to appreciate concerning modern evangelism, so I thought I'd add it here.
Matthew 9
37 Jesus said, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.
38 Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest field.”
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - here's another quote that I have come to appreciate concerning modern evangelism, so I thought I'd add it here.
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S
All believers. Our love for others that comes from the Love of God shed upon our heart by the Holy Spirit will compel us to take as many with us as we can. Each has their own Holy Spirit empowered gifts for ministry and each has their own realm of influence where and among whom God has them planted in life at any given moment.
The teaching part is life long so we impart into others as God imparts into us and it does not need to be a classroom setting to be disciplining. In my opinion it should include lots of teaching and listening just like Jesus did it but that does not mean you have to be in a classroom or in a church building to do it, neither did Jesus.
The teaching part is life long so we impart into others as God imparts into us and it does not need to be a classroom setting to be disciplining. In my opinion it should include lots of teaching and listening just like Jesus did it but that does not mean you have to be in a classroom or in a church building to do it, neither did Jesus.
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Matthew 28
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
It seems like more than just the sinners’ prayer, yes
~Deut
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
It seems like more than just the sinners’ prayer, yes
~Deut
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S
I don't make broad brush statements about churches. It comes natural to criticize and to find fault. We have to train our tongues to not do that. We cannot tell what the percentage of other churches are doing without a scientific survey. People can speak from their own limited world view, in their part of a geographical area where they have attended churches and been involved long enough to know about what is going on beyond the Sunday morning service. But people are free to wag their tongues and pass judgment on what a church or pastor is not doing right and what they should do better. I will guess that 50% of the time or more they are wrong about their criticisms. But that is not a scientific survey and the percentage might be much higher.
I can only speak for my church. We have a school of ministry that trains those who feel called to preach by putting them to work in ministry in the church, and enrolling them in a 4 year bible college program that includes 1/2 day ministry and practical work tasks related to the church facilities and 1/2 day in class and study. So some days they are doing ministry like evangelism, some days they are painting in the church, some days they are all day in study. There are several churches that are being pastored by men who were launched out of this church. This is a good model I plan to follow when I pastor.
People could attend our church for several Sundays and not know anything about our school of ministry. They could easily think that there is no disciplining going on here and they would be dead wrong. But I get your point. I also think that so many wrong things have been taught in the name of disciplining (even cultish and strange doctrines of demons) that today we have to clearly define what we mean and what it looks like to disciple all nations. We are not supposed to be modeling it after the Jewish Rabbi/disciple model and some would try and teach that.
I can only speak for my church. We have a school of ministry that trains those who feel called to preach by putting them to work in ministry in the church, and enrolling them in a 4 year bible college program that includes 1/2 day ministry and practical work tasks related to the church facilities and 1/2 day in class and study. So some days they are doing ministry like evangelism, some days they are painting in the church, some days they are all day in study. There are several churches that are being pastored by men who were launched out of this church. This is a good model I plan to follow when I pastor.
People could attend our church for several Sundays and not know anything about our school of ministry. They could easily think that there is no disciplining going on here and they would be dead wrong. But I get your point. I also think that so many wrong things have been taught in the name of disciplining (even cultish and strange doctrines of demons) that today we have to clearly define what we mean and what it looks like to disciple all nations. We are not supposed to be modeling it after the Jewish Rabbi/disciple model and some would try and teach that.
Fair enough, but it goes both ways. I've heard many pastors over the years-- whether in person, on radio or YouTube-- complain about generation X, Y or Z not being disciplined enough to go to church or to take seriously God's edicts. I would argue they are also painting with a fairly broad brush.
What if I am not called to preach but have a heart for the elderly in nursing homes? Would I be able to receive training to endure the obvious hardships I may encounter ministering to those people? After all, the spiritual warfare that goes on in those places must be somewhat perilous.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I sense a great fear among pastors and church leaders that, if they send too many people out at one time to teach others, there will be a flood of false prophets and teachers permeating the local church.
But we have to remember that it happened in Paul's day, and it will happen in ours. We just have to trust God that he will use those who go astray for His purposes. Even if we botch it up completely, He's got our back.
If you have time, I would really like to know what the Jewish Rabbi/ disciple model looks like just so I know what to avoid.
What if I am not called to preach but have a heart for the elderly in nursing homes? Would I be able to receive training to endure the obvious hardships I may encounter ministering to those people? After all, the spiritual warfare that goes on in those places must be somewhat perilous.
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I sense a great fear among pastors and church leaders that, if they send too many people out at one time to teach others, there will be a flood of false prophets and teachers permeating the local church.
But we have to remember that it happened in Paul's day, and it will happen in ours. We just have to trust God that he will use those who go astray for His purposes. Even if we botch it up completely, He's got our back.
If you have time, I would really like to know what the Jewish Rabbi/ disciple model looks like just so I know what to avoid.
S
I agree. I often wonder if they really know which generation they are speaking about. It makes no sense to define an entire generations culture, America is full of different cultures depending on environments and many other factors. I am studying an evangelism book for a class this month and it is trying to persuade me that people do not want to hear preaching today they want to hear talk shows and creative arts instead. I could not disagree more. There are many people who want Holy Spirit anointed preaching and are looking for it and turning away from creative art methods and not authentic or from God. The author is trying to paint with a broad brush and I think his experiences are his own and he does not comprehend the current generation like he thinks he does.
The ministry training students train the people in the church who want to get involved in outreaches like Nursing Home, and Jail Ministry, Street Ministry, short term missions etc. We have a full time student who is called to Jail and Police Chaplain and is taking both criminal justice courses as well as chaplaincy and bible college courses. Full time ministry might be a better word but I think that the vision of the school of ministry here is that it will produce pastors as the most common graduate.
As far as discipling being abused I was referring to those cults like the shepherding movement among others.
You can google how the rabbis taught their students at the time of Christ. People have taught things about Christ and his disciples as though they were following that model, but they were not. Even people at the time tried to put them in that box but they were definitely marching to the beat of a different drum than that model the Pharisees expected them to follow and this irritated the Pharisees to no end. They were much more free and relationship oriented and yet they did give Jesus that respect as a teacher, or like we would toward a pastor, but they were informal and real and authentic and this drew the sinners to them who were searching authentic realism and not the stuffy religion of the Pharisees. They were discipled without a formal schooling. When we go with the pastor to minister at a park, or a hospital or another church, or observe him in a wedding or funeral we are learning by the Spirit and I love it. It is a much better model than a normal Bible College. We still have the same classes and textbooks and lectures, but that is only 50% of the training. We are interning the entire 4 years which is what makes it unique to modern methods but not unique to biblical methods.
The ministry training students train the people in the church who want to get involved in outreaches like Nursing Home, and Jail Ministry, Street Ministry, short term missions etc. We have a full time student who is called to Jail and Police Chaplain and is taking both criminal justice courses as well as chaplaincy and bible college courses. Full time ministry might be a better word but I think that the vision of the school of ministry here is that it will produce pastors as the most common graduate.
As far as discipling being abused I was referring to those cults like the shepherding movement among others.
You can google how the rabbis taught their students at the time of Christ. People have taught things about Christ and his disciples as though they were following that model, but they were not. Even people at the time tried to put them in that box but they were definitely marching to the beat of a different drum than that model the Pharisees expected them to follow and this irritated the Pharisees to no end. They were much more free and relationship oriented and yet they did give Jesus that respect as a teacher, or like we would toward a pastor, but they were informal and real and authentic and this drew the sinners to them who were searching authentic realism and not the stuffy religion of the Pharisees. They were discipled without a formal schooling. When we go with the pastor to minister at a park, or a hospital or another church, or observe him in a wedding or funeral we are learning by the Spirit and I love it. It is a much better model than a normal Bible College. We still have the same classes and textbooks and lectures, but that is only 50% of the training. We are interning the entire 4 years which is what makes it unique to modern methods but not unique to biblical methods.
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