The Incarnation of God.

[Derek1955]

The Incarnation was necessary to enable mortality to be present in Christ in addition to His Divinity. He was born of a woman to become the first to rise from the dead. Christ suffered physically and mentally just as any human being would suffer when subjected to scourging and crucifixion. If God had been incarnate in a being of such strength that He did not suffer then that would be the same as His never being incarnate at all. But never allow faith to be suffocated by all the theories which abound, for the simple truth is that God became man in Jesus who suffered, died on the cross and then rose again from the dead that sins might be forgiven, so that we in turn might defeat death and become a part of the essence that is God. In simple terms God became man that man might become synonymous with God. The work that God wants from us is to believe in Him and in the one He sent and to obey His teaching, as outlined by Christ in the Gospels.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hi again = ) ,

When Jesus said the following (shortly before the Cross)...

"I have YET MANY THINGS to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come [see Jn7:39b], He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Because of this, I said that He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you" [John 16]...

... does that mean that we DO or DO NOT need to "obey" that which was "disclosed" following the Cross (the "YET MANY THINGS" He was to [and subsequently did] say further), and which is now recorded in the remainder of Scripture (those parts recorded/written FOLLOWING His death and resurrection)??

How are you seeing/understanding this? = )


[See 1Cor2:9-10a,12,16c... that which we now have "recorded" in the later parts of Scripture, that occurred FOLLOWING the Cross / His resurrection / glorification / exaltation ]

 

[Deuteronomy]

In simple terms God became man that man might become synonymous with God.

Hello Derek, I see that you are still pretty new around here, so first off, welcome to CChat

As for what you wrote above (in bold), I do not necessarily disagree, but for clarity's sake, what do you mean (IOW, in what ways does a man become "synonymous with God")

Thank you!

~Deut

1 Thessalonians 5
23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body
be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
​

 

[Corban]

The Incarnation was necessary to enable mortality to be present in Christ in addition to His Divinity. He was born of a woman to become the first to rise from the dead. Christ suffered physically and mentally just as any human being would suffer when subjected to scourging and crucifixion. If God had been incarnate in a being of such strength that He did not suffer then that would be the same as His never being incarnate at all. But never allow faith to be suffocated by all the theories which abound, for the simple truth is that God became man in Jesus who suffered, died on the cross and then rose again from the dead that sins might be forgiven, so that we in turn might defeat death and become a part of the essence that is God. In simple terms God became man that man might become synonymous with God. The work that God wants from us is to believe in Him and in the one He sent and to obey His teaching, as outlined by Christ in the Gospels.

I basically agree with your ideas, but your language is difficult. If I seem to nitpick, please, I agree with you - "let not theories suffocate simple faith".

1. Jesus was born of a woman because God ordained the Savior to be "seed of the woman" (Gen.3:15). If He was seed of the man, He would have carried the sin of Adam and been disqualified from dying for others. It is by man that sin and death is carried on (Rom.5:12)
2. I don't think that we defeated, or defeat, death. That was the work of Christ. He took up His life again, and "became" the "life-giving Spirit" (Jn.10:17-18; 1st Cor.15:45)
3. "Synonymous" with God is a difficult concept. "Conformed to the image of Christ" is the wording (Rom.8:29)
4. To believe in and obey Christ's teaching is certainly correct. But this is to qualify us to SUBDUE and REIGN with Him, to build His House which is also His Bride, and to display Him. That was God's work as outlined in the first two Chapters of the Bible

But, hey brother, your basic message is understood and agreed with.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In simple terms God became man that man might become synonymous with God.

Derek,
I agree with your post and it is well-put. But the above statement may be easily misunderstood. The children of God will RESEMBLE Christ when they have been perfected and glorified, but that will not make them little gods, or *synonymous with God*. There will always be a difference between the Creator and the creature.

 

[Mattathias]

The Incarnation was necessary to enable mortality to be present in Christ in addition to His Divinity. He was born of a woman to become the first to rise from the dead. Christ suffered physically and mentally just as any human being would suffer when subjected to scourging and crucifixion. If God had been incarnate in a being of such strength that He did not suffer then that would be the same as His never being incarnate at all. But never allow faith to be suffocated by all the theories which abound, for the simple truth is that God became man in Jesus who suffered, died on the cross and then rose again from the dead that sins might be forgiven, so that we in turn might defeat death and become a part of the essence that is God. In simple terms God became man that man might become synonymous with God. The work that God wants from us is to believe in Him and in the one He sent and to obey His teaching, as outlined by Christ in the Gospels.

Could you please clarify something for me? When you say that “God became man in Jesus” do you mean that God became a human person?

 

[Derek1955]

Could you please clarify something for me? When you say that “God became man in Jesus” do you mean that God became a human person?

Circa 2000 years ago God became fully human by being conceived in the womb of a woman and retained His divinity by being conceived through the power of His Holy Spirit thus enabling Him to enter fully into every aspect of His creation except sin and to thereby enable the Eternal God who cannot die to experience death - as do all members of His creation - and to then, by His Resurrection, to become the firstborn of the dead and thereby opening the doors of Heaven to all believers. Those are the miraculous and wondrous happenings of the Incarnation.

 

[Derek1955]

Could you please clarify something for me? When you say that “God became man in Jesus” do you mean that God became a human person?

Yes, I mean exactly that for as I've posted elsewhere, Circa 2000 years ago God became fully human by being conceived in the womb of a woman and retained His divinity by being conceived through the power of His Holy Spirit thus enabling Him to enter fully into every aspect of His creation except sin and thereby enabling the Eternal God who cannot die to experience death - as do all members of His creation - and to then, by His Resurrection, become the firstborn of the dead and thereby opening the doors of His kingdom to all believers. Those are the miraculous and wondrous happenings of the Incarnation.

 

[Derek1955]

Hello Derek, I see that you are still pretty new around here, so first off, welcome to CChat

As for what you wrote above (in bold), I do not necessarily disagree, but for clarity's sake, what do you mean (IOW, in what ways does a man become "synonymous with God")

Thank you!

~Deut

1 Thessalonians 5​

23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body ​

be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.​

​

In several places the Gospel makes clear that Heaven's population in general can be called sons of God and Jesus frequently refers to God as "our Father" or "your Father." and nowhere more certainly than in the Lord's Prayer where we are instructed to always commence the prayer Jesus taught us with the words: "Our Father which art in Heaven" and even on earth a son is in the likeness of his father.

 

[Derek1955]

---

Derek,
I agree with your post and it is well-put. But the above statement may be easily misunderstood. The children of God will RESEMBLE Christ when they have been perfected and glorified, but that will not make them little gods, or *synonymous with God*. There will always be a difference between the Creator and the creature.

As I've posted elsewhere.

Hello Derek, I see that you are still pretty new around here, so first off, welcome to CChat

As for what you wrote above (in bold), I do not necessarily disagree, but for clarity's sake, what do you mean (IOW, in what ways does a man become "synonymous with God")

Thank you!

~Deut

1 Thessalonians 5​

23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body ​

be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.​

​

In several places the Gospel makes clear that Heaven's population in general can be called sons of God and Jesus frequently refers to God as "our Father" or "your Father." and nowhere more certainly than in the Lord's Prayer where we are instructed to always commence the prayer Jesus taught us with the words: "Our Father which art in Heaven" and even on earth a son is in the likeness of his father. By the word synonymous I mean, as one dictionary definition of the word offers, which is 'closely associated with or suggestive of something. '' I apologise for any misunderstanding caused by its use.
RE

 

[jb]

In several places the Gospel makes clear that Heaven's population in general can be called sons of God and Jesus frequently refers to God as "our Father" or "your Father." and nowhere more certainly than in the Lord's Prayer where we are instructed to always commence the prayer Jesus taught us with the words: "Our Father which art in Heaven" and even on earth a son is in the likeness of his father.

The Lord Jesus has a unique sonship (John 1v1-3,14, 1John 1v1-2. Greek "monogenoús"), however the sonship of the believer is by adoption, we are adopted into the family of God by/at the new birth (i.e., by being born again). Rom 8v15-17, John 1v12,13, 3v3. Being adopted into the family of God, we are to grow in Grace into His image, through His Truth and Presence. 2Cor 3v18, Gal 5v16-26, Col 3v1-10, John 17v17-19.

 

[Derek1955]

Hi again = ) ,

When Jesus said the following (shortly before the Cross)...

"I have YET MANY THINGS to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come [see Jn7:39b], He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Because of this, I said that He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you" [John 16]...

... does that mean that we DO or DO NOT need to "obey" that which was "disclosed" following the Cross (the "YET MANY THINGS" He was to [and subsequently did] say further), and which is now recorded in the remainder of Scripture (those parts recorded/written FOLLOWING His death and resurrection)??

How are you seeing/understanding this? = )


[See 1Cor2:9-10a,12,16c... that which we now have "recorded" in the later parts of Scripture, that occurred FOLLOWING the Cross / His resurrection / glorification / exaltation ]

We need to obey all things told to us by Christ through the Gospels whether we are cognitively aware of their true spiritual meaning or not. Repentance and forgiveness is fortunately built into our faith so that when we fail to understand and then disobey God's commandments we can repent and be forgiven. If that were not so then we would all be doomed. I find that many things revealed to me now through prayer I would never have come close to understanding in the past. That which is of unequivocal importance is continuing in the faith, for Christ promised that: 'For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance,; but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath' At the last supper Christ told His apostles to 'take eat' as opposed to 'take understand.' In our temporal condition we must obey Christ's commandments for as Paul tells us we can only look through the mirror darkly as a total understanding of things spiritual is not yet possible with our finite minds. In prayer we need to ask God to give us understanding and this he will do.

 

[p_rehbein]

Mr. Derek;

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

I, like one or two others, am concerned when you say:

and become a part of the essence that is God

Are you suggesting that we will NOT be individual beings, but, rather, be somehow infused into God and disappear as a being?

 

[Benadam]

---


As I've posted elsewhere.


In several places the Gospel makes clear that Heaven's population in general can be called sons of God and Jesus frequently refers to God as "our Father" or "your Father." and nowhere more certainly than in the Lord's Prayer where we are instructed to always commence the prayer Jesus taught us with the words: "Our Father which art in Heaven" and even on earth a son is in the likeness of his father. By the word synonymous I mean, as one dictionary definition of the word offers, which is 'closely associated with or suggestive of something. '' I apologise for any misunderstanding caused by its use.
RE

I like using the word 'divinized' Christ was conceived with His soul assumed to His Divinity. That is, He was conceived with a glorified soul. That's our hopeful end. That's His natural beginning. Anyway, He is a Divine human person and He shares that with us as a gift. We become divinized but are not divine. We will be like Him. Hope I helped.

 

[Derek1955]

Mr. Derek;

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

I, like one or two others, am concerned when you say:

and become a part of the essence that is God

Are you suggesting that we will NOT be individual beings, but, rather, be somehow infused into God and disappear as a being?

I most certainly do not suggest that. In Revelation we are told that “To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. [Eternal Life] And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written, [The redemption of a human personality] which no one knows except him [and God] who receives it.” Revelation 2:17. Thus we will enter God's kingdom with a redeemed personality with each being different, otherwise Heaven would be like an orchestra having only one instrument which plays only one tune. The personality of an individual must be redeemed for it to be able to enter the realm of the spirit.

 

[p_rehbein]

Thank you.

But, do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

 

[Derek1955]

Yes I most certainly do. And when asked by someone who might have difficulties understanding the concept of a three personal (Triune) God, a God who, whilst remaining one, nevertheless comprises Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I simplify it for them by likening it to water which can also be either steam or ice to accomplish various purposes whilst still remaining, in its very essence, water. My own concept is that God overarches the Trinity, Christ is the one who intercedes with His Father for the prayers of the world and the Holy Spirit which is the very heart, soul and spirit of God that He sent into the world to be its Comforter. Maybe not perfect illustrations I grant you but I remain content within them until something better is revealed.

 

[Mattathias]

Yes, I mean exactly that for as I've posted elsewhere, Circa 2000 years ago God became fully human by being conceived in the womb of a woman and retained His divinity by being conceived through the power of His Holy Spirit thus enabling Him to enter fully into every aspect of His creation except sin and thereby enabling the Eternal God who cannot die to experience death - as do all members of His creation - and to then, by His Resurrection, become the firstborn of the dead and thereby opening the doors of His kingdom to all believers. Those are the miraculous and wondrous happenings of the Incarnation.

Thank you for the clarification. Are you aware that trinitarianism teaches that Jesus is not a human person?

 

[Chester]

Thank you for the clarification. Are you aware that trinitarianism teaches that Jesus is not a human person?

Orthodox trinitarianism - belief in the Trinity - teaches that Jesus Christ is 100% God and is also 100% man.

 

[Mattathias]

Orthodox trinitarianism - belief in the Trinity - teaches that Jesus Christ is 100% God and is also 100% man.

From the National Catholic Register,

https://www.ncregister.com/blog/steven-greydanus/is-jesus-a-human-person