Not By Works

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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Judges1318 said:
Sometimes I'll use the phrase 'I chose to be saved' knowing full well that the Bible says we did not choose him, he chose us. I mean it in the sense that God initiates salvation, not man, but we choose to respond to the offer he initiates. I think even Calvinism says that. It's just that God sovereignly gives the believer the correct response to the gospel message, and withholds it from the unbeliever. Correct?
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That would be incorrect.
 
P

Pulie

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If I can deny the promptings of the Holy Spirit at the onset, then I can definitely retract my commitment to God?

The power that draws one to Christ is the same power that keeps one in Christ. If I am not forced to believe in God then I should not be forced to continue believing in Him?

Are there differences in the power of God or the power of the Holy Spirit?

Please help with scriptures while adding or subtracting.
 
Blue_Of_Lake

Blue_Of_Lake

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eternally-gratefull said:
Really?

as usual you must not have read the post, we had this same discussion a few weeks ago,I called you out for misrepresenting my posts, then You went on a rampage of calling me a liar and demanding I prove my lies

so this could be no one but you?



are you going to tell me oncefallen got it wrong? Now several other people have agreed amd have told you the same thing and you insist they are all wrong?

when will you admit you are wrong?
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well, I'm confused.


but i do wonder if we had all been taught to love the Laws since birth and to keep them and to follow what the Sermon on the Mount (Yeshua) says also if we all would even be having such conversations here, like ... ever. :)



there are more important things than which way we think or proclaim we are saved . . .



Knowledge Puffeth Up But Love Edifieth
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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Judges1318 said:
He can set the record straight but I'm almost certain he believes the sinning person in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 was never saved to begin with.


Which, as far as I've seen, involves matters of faith, election, and predestination, not the matter of the truly saved person being 1) forever and always saved, and 2) incapable of living in sin and unbelief again--the two things you agree with, too. But he can set me straight if I'm in error about what I think he believes.
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Hey bro....can you give me more info on this post.
Maybe preacher as well....

I believe I am incapable of unbelief...there is no way I could not believe after what God gave to me.

It’s the incapable of living in sin that I would like to know more about.
Can you explain what that fully means......because it really speaks to me.

Only I’m not fully understanding it?...thanks,x
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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Judges1318 said:
@preacher4truth , I have to be honest here, as far as I know EG has always defended this truth. Your differences lie in other aspects of Calvinism, not the 'osas/ change of life' part. Me and him start tossing chairs and tables around when it comes to discussing matters of faith and believing but he's always defended the changed/changing life as the standard of the true Christian.
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A believers life should start changing as soon as they are born again..the character of Jesus should shine out of a believer in time....they should also bear much fruit.

As we grow we should become more and more like Jesus.....

I see many who confess to being saved..yet I see no fruit whatsoever......they never appear any different in character.....

That to me....is very concerning.....you shall know them by their fruit....that scripture speaks volumes to me.

Love one another is also very important for a believer.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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Jan 25, 2015
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jackrosie said:
I believe I am 1) incapable of unbelief...there is no way I could 2) not believe after what God gave to me.

3) It’s the incapable of living in sin that I would like to know more about.
Can you explain what that fully means......because it really speaks to me.
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1) This is a very strong place to be in the Lord. Even Eve had her doubts in the Garden of Eden. Israel after seeing the Red Sea open had doubts. We will always have a degree of doubt but I can tell about the moments God did miracles in my life and I was in awe of our King.

2) Moses was also this person. Lord if you don't go, I don't go, and God honored him for that attitude.

3) Nobody is incapable of sin, except for One. We need to repent and move closer to a state of sinlessness but like with Enoch God might just take you away once you reach that stage :)
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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GandalfTheWhite said:
1) This is a very strong place to be in the Lord. Even Eve had her doubts in the Garden of Eden. Israel after seeing the Red Sea open had doubts. We will always have a degree of doubt but I can tell about the moments God did miracles in my life and I was in awe of our King.

2) Moses was also this person. Lord if you don't go, I don't go, and God honored him for that attitude.

3) Nobody is incapable of sin, except for One. We need to repent and move closer to a state of sinlessness but like with Enoch God might just take you away once you reach that stage :)
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Are you able to share some of those miracles that God did in your life?

From the moment I was saved....I received God’s Love it was overwhelming.....I was jumping around....with excitement as I had never known such Love..

He has manifested into my heart....I have not for one minute not known that..never ever have i doubted God being in my heart.

He also placed something in my heart...still there to this very day and about to come to pass.

My heart has never doubted....it was my head....soooooo far behind my heart......but my mind is now in line with my heart...through walking in faith and trusting God...in this area.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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jackrosie said:
Are you able to share some of those miracles that God did in your life?

From the moment I was saved....I received God’s Love it was overwhelming.....I was jumping around....with excitement as I had never known such Love..

He has manifested into my heart....I have not for one minute not known that..never ever have i doubted God being in my heart.

He also placed something in my heart...still there to this very day and about to come to pass.

My heart has never doubted....it was my head....soooooo far behind my heart......but my mind is now in line with my heart...through walking in faith and trusting God...in this area.
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I have recently shared some of it.

Will see if I can find it and provide you with a link :)
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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jackrosie said:
A believers life should start changing as soon as they are born again..the character of Jesus should shine out of a believer in time....they should also bear much fruit.

As we grow we should become more and more like Jesus.....

I see many who confess to being saved..yet I see no fruit whatsoever......they never appear any different in character.....

That to me....is very concerning.....you shall know them by their fruit....that scripture speaks volumes to me.

Love one another is also very important for a believer.
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For the 100th time.....the verse you reference is directed at FALSE teachers in context......and JESUS told PETER after 3.5 years (give or take) after he was saved....WHEN you are converted, strengthen the brethern....your hard fast rule of insta fruit is not fully correct....
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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dcontroversal said:
For the 100th time.....the verse you reference is directed at FALSE teachers in context......and JESUS told PETER after 3.5 years (give or take) after he was saved....WHEN you are converted, strengthen the brethern....your hard fast rule of insta fruit is not fully correct....
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Sorry,I disagree...as soon as one becomes Born Again......there is instant acknowledgement of what the Lord has given to us...His Love is manifest in a believers heart..You cannot but help share that Love that the Lord has placed in our heart.

Over time our fruits grow Jesus is seen in us more and more....people even recognise the kindness that is deep within us.....but don’t know it is Jesus shining out from our spirits.

That is my belief..never to be swayed...I stand firm on it.you shall know them by the fruit they bear....which is the fruit of Jesus.in a believers heart.....nothing to do with me.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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1John 4:7-8

“Beloved,let us love one another,for Love is from God,
and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Anyone who does not love does not know God,because God is Love.”

God’s Love Reigns!..my words.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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Judges1318 said:
Calvinist OSAS: The 'believer' who lives in willful sin, or goes back to unbelief shows that he was never saved to begin with.

Freegrace OSAS: God's grace is so great that the saved person can even go back to unbelief and they are still saved no matter what.
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Umm, but I would not associate with Calvnism and antinomianism.
 
E

EleventhHour

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Judges1318 said:
I understand the point you're trying to make.
We did not possess God's grace while we were yet sinners. It was made available to us while we were yet sinners. And that grace, that was made available to us while we were yet sinners, is only given to those who respond in faith to the offer of that grace. Faith is the conduit through which God's grace flows.

"Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. " - Romans 5:

"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. " - 1 Peter 1:5

No faith means no conduit through which to receive God's grace. That's why we have to believe, and keep on believing, in order to be in the grace of God. Freegrace says you still have God's grace in salvation even if you no longer have the conduit of faith by which you receive God's grace in salvation.
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This is incorrect.
Faith is the conduit for salvation and which is secure the moment of conversion.
 
E

EleventhHour

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dcontroversal said:
For the 100th time.....the verse you reference is directed at FALSE teachers in context......and JESUS told PETER after 3.5 years (give or take) after he was saved....WHEN you are converted, strengthen the brethern....your hard fast rule of insta fruit is not fully correct....
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When people read scripture through the lens of their own personal experience one can expect faulty doctrine.

In my experience these people are difficult to correct because again they have infused self, personal bias into their beliefs.....it is not based on the evidence.
 
J

Judges1318

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jackrosie said:
I believe I am incapable of unbelief...there is no way I could not believe after what God gave to me.
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That's good.
Just keep these scriptures in mind:

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:21

"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" - 1 Corinthians 10:12

jackrosie said:
It’s the incapable of living in sin that I would like to know more about.
Can you explain what that fully means......because it really speaks to me.
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Living in sin means purposely living in sin as an accepted way of life. This is the mark of the unsaved person. Though I believe a saved person can be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin and find himself willfully living once again in the life God saved him from. And unless they repent they will be lost, not saved, when Jesus returns. They have in effect gone back to unbelief. Ultimately, willful sinning is the sign of the unbeliever, while the struggle with sin is the sign of the believer.

According to the parable of the sower, how deeply rooted the word is in a person's heart determines the potential for them falling back in unbelief to their old lifestyle of willful sin. And how deeply rooted the word is depends on the condition of the person's heart.
 
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