Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[reneweddaybyday]

Most everyone on this forum, I believe, are born again, if they are here for the right reason, but look at the many different doctrines represented. They are all God's sheep, born again, and destined for heaven. Jesus said that God has hidden the mystery of the truth of his gospel to many and revealed it to only a few (and that is a big question I have for God "WHY") nevertheless, just because you are following the doctrine as instructed by man, does not mean you have lost your eternal destination.

Where have I ever stated that a born again believer "following the doctrine as instructed by man" loses eternal salvation?

What I stated was that when the believer follows men (or the doctrines of men), he/she remains as a newborn babe who feeds on the milk of the Word and does not progress to the meatier matters. Scripture indicates that those who follow men or the doctrines of men are carnal, envious, striving, and divisive:

1 Corinthians 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


In Ephesians 4, we are instructed not to be children so that we are able to discern deceitful doctrines.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.


We are to grow up in the Lord Jesus Christ so that we effectively work in order to increase and build up the body of Christ in love.

Ephesians 4:15-16 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


We will never reach the point of the Eph 4:15-16 believer if we continue to follow men and/or men's doctrines. Following men's doctrines results in the believer being tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Same can be said about being chosen before the foundation.

The only issue is, God can not regenerate a person UNTIL that person is justified. Otherwise, God regenerates a person in sin. Which is impossible and would go against Gods perfect laws and justice system. God can not go against his own character, thats why his love alone could not save us. Because his justice demands punishment, and Gods love can not over rule that.

Love did find a way though, Through death.

Those that God regenerates have already been made just by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. There is the punishment.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Where have I ever stated that a born again believer "following the doctrine as instructed by man" loses eternal salvation?

What I stated was that when the believer follows men (or the doctrines of men), he/she remains as a newborn babe who feeds on the milk of the Word and does not progress to the meatier matters. Scripture indicates that those who follow men or the doctrines of men are carnal, envious, striving, and divisive:

1 Corinthians 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


In Ephesians 4, we are instructed not to be children so that we are able to discern deceitful doctrines.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.


We are to grow up in the Lord Jesus Christ so that we effectively work in order to increase and build up the body of Christ in love.

Ephesians 4:15-16 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


We will never reach the point of the Eph 4:15-16 believer if we continue to follow men and/or men's doctrines. Following men's doctrines results in the believer being tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

Sorry, I misunderstood your explanation. I am in agreement with you on this subject.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those that God regenerates have already been made just by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. There is the punishment.

Then they were born alive they never would have had to be regenerated. Because they would have been born justfied, free of sin, and with the righteousness of Christ already in them.

Again You stumble wiht your words and made your argument even harder to survive

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Then they were born alive they never would have had to be regenerated. Because they would have been born justfied, free of sin, and with the righteousness of Christ already in them.

Again You stumble wiht your words and made your argument even harder to survive

God choose a set amount of people to be his elect, in covenant relationship, before the foundation of the world (Eph 1) He choose them way before they were even born a natural birth. When they were born into this world in natural birth they were all spiritually dead because of the sin of Adam. Sometime between their natural birth and their natural death God regenerates them and gives them the Holy Spirit (born again) so that they could discern spiritual things and honor and praise him.

 

[Nehemiah6]

God choose a set amount of people to be his elect, in covenant relationship, before the foundation of the world (Eph 1)

Ephesians 1 must be interpreted in the light of ALL GOSPEL TRUTH.

What you are suggesting contradicts the Gospel. Therefore you need to understand the proper meaning of election and predestination. It is never for salvation but always for perfection and glorification.

"To be conformed to the image of His Son" means to be transformed into the likeness of Christ, and wholly perfected.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Ephesians 1 must be interpreted in the light of ALL GOSPEL TRUTH.

What you are suggesting contradicts the Gospel. Therefore you need to understand the proper meaning of election and predestination. It is never for salvation but always for perfection and glorification.

"To be conformed to the image of His Son" means to be transformed into the likeness of Christ, and wholly perfected.

God predestined those that he choose to be adopted as children by Jesus Christ to himself (Eph 1:5). Jesus paid that adoption price on the cross and will gather his elect adopted children at the last day and take them home.

 

[kohelet]

sola Christos Christ alone

Shouldn't that be 'Solus Christus'?

 

[GrimmBro3]

God predestined those that he choose to be adopted as children by Jesus Christ to himself (Eph 1:5). Jesus paid that adoption price on the cross and will gather his elect adopted children at the last day and take them home.

Glorious and humbling. Who am I that I should be chosen? I am but dust. Praise be to God, glory!

This is all my hope - not that I should choose Him, but that He chose me. I love Him but He loved me first - even when I was still an enemy of God, lost in my sins... totally incapable of choosing Him... yet, not because of anything in me, nothing to the cross I bring - even my faith itself is a precious gift of grace. That I should be numbered among the elect... That I should have that incomprehensibly beautiful light of the gospel shown on my dead, dark soul, and be made alive! Never to be lost - for even the work I do, it's not me that lives - but Christ that lives in me! I am His, and can never be lost.

I GLORY in the truths of TULIP. These truths are all my hope and stay - because they tell me of the glorious, sovereign love of Christ for me.

Though the fig tree should not blossom,
nor fruit be on the vines,
the produce of the olive fail
and the fields yield no food,
the flock be cut off from the fold
and there be no herd in the stalls,

yet I will rejoice in the Lord;
I will take joy in the God of my salvation.

God, the Lord, is my strength;
he makes my feet like the deer's;
he makes me tread on my high places.

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments.

Habakkuk 3:17-19

 

[jackrosie]

Glorious and humbling. Who am I that I should be chosen? I am but dust. Praise be to God, glory!

This is all my hope - not that I should choose Him, but that He chose me. I love Him but He loved me first - even when I was still an enemy of God, lost in my sins... totally incapable of choosing Him... yet, not because of anything in me, nothing to the cross I bring - even my faith itself is a precious gift of grace. That I should be numbered among the elect... That I should have that incomprehensibly beautiful light of the gospel shown on my dead, dark soul, and be made alive! Never to be lost - for even the work I do, it's not me that lives - but Christ that lives in me! I am His, and can never be lost.



Oh my love it!!.....All the Glory Goes to our wonderful Lord Jesus who chose and drew us to him.....let his light shine outward from a believers heart!.

Being Alive In Christ cannot be described.....it’s just amazing....but much more than that.....being as close to God as can be...nothing like it...

He will never leave or forsake us...he is ever faithful!.

 

[GrimmBro3]

Oh my love it!!.....All the Glory Goes to our wonderful Lord Jesus who chose and drew us to him.....let his light shine outward from a believers heart!.

Being Alive In Christ cannot be described.....it’s just amazing....but much more than that.....being as close to God as can be...nothing like it...

Amen, and amen. This is all my faith - all my Calvinism. Glory.

I only wish I could articulate it well enough to show the beauty of what we see here. I feel totally inept to do so. But, these are truths that the Holy Spirit must place within our hearts, I think.

How beautiful our God is. And that He should invite us to call Him, "Abba, Father."

 

[GrimmBro3]

I wonder if we could start a Calvinists thread - not for argument sake - but for edification. Maybe we could then start another thread for debates - as I know people members will want to debate these truths, and I want to keep that dialogue open and honest for them, too. Just thoughts.

 

[jackrosie]

Amen, and amen. This is all my faith - all my Calvinism. Glory.

I only wish I could articulate it well enough to show the beauty of what we see here. I feel totally inept to do so. But, these are truths that the Holy Spirit must place within our hearts, I think.

How beautiful our God is. And that He should invite us to call Him, "Abba, Father."

Amen!....I fell in Love with God 28 yrs ago......it has grown soooooo deep over the yrs.

Every day the Lord is more and more in my thoughts...he is like a drug..( not in a rude way)...I just cannot get enough of him.......

He rules in my heart!.

 

[jackrosie]

I wonder if we could start a Calvinists thread - not for argument sake - but for edification. Maybe we could then start another thread for debates - as I know people members will want to debate these truths, and I want to keep that dialogue open and honest for them, too. Just thoughts.

I did submit one to @Oncefallen ..he is the boss,therefore he makes the decision if it gets to be put on the board...we must respect his decision.

 

[oyster67]

Glorious and humbling. Who am I that I should be chosen? I am but dust. Praise be to God, glory!

This is all my hope - not that I should choose Him, but that He chose me. I love Him but He loved me first - even when I was still an enemy of God, lost in my sins... totally incapable of choosing Him... yet, not because of anything in me, nothing to the cross I bring - even my faith itself is a precious gift of grace. That I should be numbered among the elect... That I should have that incomprehensibly beautiful light of the gospel shown on my dead, dark soul, and be made alive! Never to be lost - for even the work I do, it's not me that lives - but Christ that lives in me! I am His, and can never be lost.

I GLORY in the truths of TULIP. These truths are all my hope and stay - because they tell me of the glorious, sovereign love of Christ for me.

Though the fig tree should not blossom,
nor fruit be on the vines,
the produce of the olive fail
and the fields yield no food,
the flock be cut off from the fold
and there be no herd in the stalls,

yet I will rejoice in the Lord;
I will take joy in the God of my salvation.

God, the Lord, is my strength;
he makes my feet like the deer's;
he makes me tread on my high places.

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments.

Habakkuk 3:17-19

I like that post, but why do you feel the need to bring TULIP into it. There is a dark side to TULIP. You don't need to defend it. Just be a plain-Jain Christian.

 

[jackrosie]

I like that post, but why do you feel the need to bring TULIP into it. There is a dark side to TULIP. You don't need to defend it. Just be a plain-Jain Christian.

I didn’t quote TULIP,when I replied to a brother post..as I didn’t know what it means....but if you look at my post..what he posted spoke to my heart,xx

 

[GrimmBro3]

I like that post, but why do you feel the need to bring TULIP into it. There is a dark side to TULIP. You don't need to defend it. Just be a plain-Jain Christian.

To show that this praise is born out of my understanding of salvation through a Calvinistic approach. To show that the truths of Calvinism, of TULIP (which isn't all that Calvinism is about, but only part), is not dark - as you say. Jesus said, "Judge Me by the works you see me do," to those who questioned His authority. In a similar way, I suggest, judge Calvinism by the fruit you see - the praise and adoration of the Father, and love for others, that comes from those who hold the truths it proclaims as precious.

"By this all men will know you are my disciples, if you love one another as I have loved you."

 

[oyster67]

I wonder if we could start a Calvinists thread - not for argument sake - but for edification. Maybe we could then start another thread for debates - as I know people members will want to debate these truths, and I want to keep that dialogue open and honest for them, too. Just thoughts.

This is your "Calvinism Thread". It's all your's now.

 

[preacher4truth]

I wonder if we could start a Calvinists thread - not for argument sake - but for edification. Maybe we could then start another thread for debates - as I know people members will want to debate these truths, and I want to keep that dialogue open and honest for them, too. Just thoughts.

Go for it, yet keep in mind you're going to have to deal with lot's of straw man arguments, false accusations &c from the other side as witnessed elsewhere.

But, I'm all for it, well, as long as the argument stays clean. The baseless vitriol against it, unsubstantiated claims? Unneeded.

 

[jackrosie]

To show that this praise is born out of my understanding of salvation through a Calvinistic approach. To show that the truths of Calvinism, of TULIP (which isn't all that Calvinism is about, but only part), is not dark - as you say. Jesus said, "Judge Me by the works you see me do," to those who questioned His authority. In a similar way, I suggest, judge Calvinism by the fruit you see - the praise and adoration of the Father, and love for others, that comes from those who hold the truths it proclaims as precious.

"By this all men will know you are my disciples, if you love one another as I have loved you."

I love what you say here...the fruit of the Spirit..that should be at the forefront of a believer and focus.

More of you Jesus less of me.....you will recognise them by their fruit.