Are We Using Epesians 2:8-9 As An Excuse to Do Nothing?

[DesertWanderer]

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9

It is clear that Paul assures us we cannot be saved by doing anything on our own. It is only by God's grace that we have the free gift of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. We all agree on that.

But are we using the fact that we can do nothing on our own as a convenient excuse to do nothing at all? God is sovereign and holy, yet He chooses to work through His people.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? James 2: 14-17

These two verses are not mutually exclusive, yet we often pit them against each other to the point of choosing sides. We think we are honest about the truth of salvation, when in fact, we can use this level of divisiveness to hurt others unintentionally.

To illustrate this, a young man who attends church by himself every Sunday recently lost his father to cancer. He confronted one of the elders about what he might have done better to convince his unsaved father concerning the gospel. The reply was, "If God wanted him to be saved, he would have saved him."

Unfortunately, this level of insensitivity permeates the church into other areas, also. For example:

--"If God wanted him to have a job, He would have given him one.

--"If she would only follow God a little closer, she wouldn't be in this mess."

-- "God must have wanted her to leave him. After all, he probably wasn't really saved in the first place."

-- "His family wouldn't be so poor if he would just work as hard as I do."

And on it goes. We leave everything to God, without taking any responsibility ourselves for caring, serving, or teaching each other. Jesus said to go and make, not to sit and pray.

The usual rebuttal to serving one another is, "I serve the church every Sunday. That should be enough."

Although that is a wonderful notion, it usually ends up looks like this:

• Pass around the collection plate so the church can collect money
• Serve in the daycare center so the church can welcome more families
• Sing with the worship team so the church can offer a better experience
• Give 10% of your income so the church can buy a larger building

What if we were to start doing this instead:

• Bring a plate of cookies to that atheist neighbor and invite him over for dinner so he can see what God's love really looks like.
• Offer to babysit for that single mom. After all, we were the ones who talked her out of aborting her baby.
• Scrub pots and pans at the local homeless shelter
• Give the 10% we normally set aside for our local church to buy groceries for the family across the street, since they lost all of their income due to the pandemic
• Listen to that dear sister in the church tell us about her recent cancer diagnosis. Repeat tomorrow, and the next day.

When he had washed their feet and put on his outer garments and resumed his place, he said to them, Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. John 13:12-15.

 

[DesertWanderer]

Thank you for your kind response

 

[Guojing]

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9

It is clear that Paul assures us we cannot be saved by doing anything on our own. It is only by God's grace that we have the free gift of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. We all agree on that.

But are we using the fact that we can do nothing on our own as a convenient excuse to do nothing at all? God is sovereign and holy, yet He chooses to work through His people.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? James 2: 14-17

These two verses are not mutually exclusive, yet we often pit them against each other to the point of choosing sides. We think we are honest about the truth of salvation, when in fact, we can use this level of divisiveness to hurt others unintentionally.

To illustrate this, a young man who attends church by himself every Sunday recently lost his father to cancer. He confronted one of the elders about what he might have done better to convince his unsaved father concerning the gospel. The reply was, "If God wanted him to be saved, he would have saved him."

Unfortunately, this level of insensitivity permeates the church into other areas, also. For example:

--"If God wanted him to have a job, He would have given him one.

--"If she would only follow God a little closer, she wouldn't be in this mess."

-- "God must have wanted her to leave him. After all, he probably wasn't really saved in the first place."

-- "His family wouldn't be so poor if he would just work as hard as I do."

And on it goes. We leave everything to God, without taking any responsibility ourselves for caring, serving, or teaching each other. Jesus said to go and make, not to sit and pray.

The usual rebuttal to serving one another is, "I serve the church every Sunday. That should be enough."

Although that is a wonderful notion, it usually ends up looks like this:

• Pass around the collection plate so the church can collect money
• Serve in the daycare center so the church can welcome more families
• Sing with the worship team so the church can offer a better experience
• Give 10% of your income so the church can buy a larger building

What if we were to start doing this instead:

• Bring a plate of cookies to that atheist neighbor and invite him over for dinner so he can see what God's love really looks like.
• Offer to babysit for that single mom. After all, we were the ones who talked her out of aborting her baby.
• Scrub pots and pans at the local homeless shelter
• Give the 10% we normally set aside for our local church to buy groceries for the family across the street, since they lost all of their income due to the pandemic
• Listen to that dear sister in the church tell us about her recent cancer diagnosis. Repeat tomorrow, and the next day.

When he had washed their feet and put on his outer garments and resumed his place, he said to them, Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. John 13:12-15.

Good works are great to do, and they will determine the rewards we will get in heaven, true.

But I don't think we should be "fruit inspector" of others, that is not our role. We do works on our own, and leave others to decide for themselves, when they should start doing them too.

 

[Blade]

So...what are you doing? Not what others do ..what are you doing. Its clear.. He is talking to you. I can't speak for the millions of Churches around the world. There is a truth about salvation.. we can not save anyone. Not the answer I would have said.. but man comes to God by the holy Spirit.. as He draws them. And... His words to me when I was 15 "For God so loved the world.. everyone gets a choice".

Our works.. come about from our relationship with Him. Salvation is not based on works. Its something that just ..well SHINES from the new man in us.. that wants nothing more then to please HIM! To just say.. here I am lord use me! Not..do something good or you don't get to keep your salvation They go hand in hand

 

[p_rehbein]

But are we using the fact that we can do nothing on our own as a convenient excuse to do nothing at all? God is sovereign and holy, yet He chooses to work through His people.

If this is happening it may be because people are not reading the Scripture complete. As you just did, they leave out the entire thought Paul was teaching. Why leave out verse 10 when you can not complete the teaching if you do?

10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think the problem is people do not understand what works (fruit of the spirit) is

i guarantee that church leader thought he did many works,as leader of a church, but it sounds like his doctrine is skewed. I pray he was not trying to comfort you, that would not be a very good way to do it, I feel for ya,,

the fact is, God did want him to be saved, but God is not going to overrule his free will. There were tears in heaven when another lost soul died apart from Christ. .

 

[pottersclay]

To illustrate this, a young man who attends church by himself every Sunday recently lost his father to cancer. He confronted one of the elders about what he might have done better to convince his unsaved father concerning the gospel. The reply was, "If God wanted him to be saved, he would have saved him


I serve and believe in the God of the impossible. For the sake of Abraham lot was saved. I try to hang on to every hope that is given.
The thief on the cross in the hour of his death stares into his redeemers or judges face and ask (not to be forgiven)....( certainly no time to repent) ...(does not confess of sin nor says he's a sinner) but simply asks to be remembered.
Satan is a thief, and a murder he blinds those from seeing the truth. Scripture says that a only a fool says there is no God. (Meaning from the heart).
Paul says that our Lord can save from the uttermost......who are we to judge?

Remembering these examples and placing my trust in God the giver of salvation gives me comfort and peace. The young man did all that he could rest assured God does all that he wills.

Potter

 

[MattforJesus]

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9

It is clear that Paul assures us we cannot be saved by doing anything on our own. It is only by God's grace that we have the free gift of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. We all agree on that.

But are we using the fact that we can do nothing on our own as a convenient excuse to do nothing at all? God is sovereign and holy, yet He chooses to work through His people.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? James 2: 14-17

These two verses are not mutually exclusive, yet we often pit them against each other to the point of choosing sides. We think we are honest about the truth of salvation, when in fact, we can use this level of divisiveness to hurt others unintentionally.

To illustrate this, a young man who attends church by himself every Sunday recently lost his father to cancer. He confronted one of the elders about what he might have done better to convince his unsaved father concerning the gospel. The reply was, "If God wanted him to be saved, he would have saved him."

Unfortunately, this level of insensitivity permeates the church into other areas, also. For example:

--"If God wanted him to have a job, He would have given him one.

--"If she would only follow God a little closer, she wouldn't be in this mess."

-- "God must have wanted her to leave him. After all, he probably wasn't really saved in the first place."

-- "His family wouldn't be so poor if he would just work as hard as I do."

And on it goes. We leave everything to God, without taking any responsibility ourselves for caring, serving, or teaching each other. Jesus said to go and make, not to sit and pray.

The usual rebuttal to serving one another is, "I serve the church every Sunday. That should be enough."

Although that is a wonderful notion, it usually ends up looks like this:

• Pass around the collection plate so the church can collect money
• Serve in the daycare center so the church can welcome more families
• Sing with the worship team so the church can offer a better experience
• Give 10% of your income so the church can buy a larger building

What if we were to start doing this instead:

• Bring a plate of cookies to that atheist neighbor and invite him over for dinner so he can see what God's love really looks like.
• Offer to babysit for that single mom. After all, we were the ones who talked her out of aborting her baby.
• Scrub pots and pans at the local homeless shelter
• Give the 10% we normally set aside for our local church to buy groceries for the family across the street, since they lost all of their income due to the pandemic
• Listen to that dear sister in the church tell us about her recent cancer diagnosis. Repeat tomorrow, and the next day.

When he had washed their feet and put on his outer garments and resumed his place, he said to them, Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. John 13:12-15.

People should understand when Paul is speaking according to the flesh, and the Spirit, although no one comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

We are saved by faith, and not by works, when we first confess Christ, for we have not received the Spirit yet, so faith is all we can have, and our works of the flesh will not save us.

When we receive the Spirit then we have to allow the Spirit to lead us and be Christlike having love for people.

Paul said that charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have faith he is nothing.

Paul said if they preach that God blesses the saints with money and material things above their needs to withdraw yourselves from them having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and if they go by money above their needs then they have erred from the faith.

James said if they do not have charity then their faith is dead, so a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.

So Paul and James say the same thing that they have to have charity, love in action, works, for their faith to be active in their life, for love is greater than faith, and it only counts if it is in action.

John said if they do not have charity the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word, or tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.

But there are many people who claim Christ but live according to their wants like the prosperity Gospel, and lack works of love, and believe that faith alone will save them.

Paul said that charity does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, does not sin, but rejoices in truth.

If a person hates sin, and does not want sin by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit.

Which God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able to handle, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

If a person sins they should have the right attitude to not hold unto sin, and to move forward in the Spirit, and there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin, but we are in the flesh so we might want to sin, and sin, but there is still no excuse, and we have a choice and could of chose good.

Which the Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some have not the knowledge of God.

Which some people hold unto sin and believe they have salvation, which they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, from such turn away, and ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

So to have proper faith a person must have the right perspective of God and His kingdom, which God hates sin, and His kingdom is love.

 

[DesertWanderer]

To just say.. here I am lord use me! Not..do something good or you don't get to keep your salvation

I agree 100% And I would never imply that we can keep our salvation by doing something good for our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

It is, however, what we are called to do:

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Heb. 13:16

Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal 6:2

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? 1 John 3:17

Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed. Pro. 19:7

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’” Acts 20:35

We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Rom. 15:1

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I think the problem is people do not understand what works (fruit of the spirit) is

i guarantee that church leader thought he did many works,as leader of a church, but it sounds like his doctrine is skewed. I pray he was not trying to comfort you, that would not be a very good way to do it, I feel for ya,,

the fact is, God did want him to be saved, but God is not going to overrule his free will. There were tears in heaven when another lost soul died apart from Christ. .

Just curious. Is your lsat statement found in the scriptures, if so, I must have overlooked it. Could you help me with book, chapter and verse?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

People should understand when Paul is speaking according to the flesh, and the Spirit, although no one comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

We are saved by faith, and not by works, when we first confess Christ, for we have not received the Spirit yet, so faith is all we can have, and our works of the flesh will not save us.

When we receive the Spirit then we have to allow the Spirit to lead us and be Christlike having love for people.

Paul said that charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have faith he is nothing.

Paul said if they preach that God blesses the saints with money and material things above their needs to withdraw yourselves from them having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and if they go by money above their needs then they have erred from the faith.

James said if they do not have charity then their faith is dead, so a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.

So Paul and James say the same thing that they have to have charity, love in action, works, for their faith to be active in their life, for love is greater than faith, and it only counts if it is in action.

John said if they do not have charity the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word, or tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.

But there are many people who claim Christ but live according to their wants like the prosperity Gospel, and lack works of love, and believe that faith alone will save them.

Paul said that charity does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, does not sin, but rejoices in truth.

If a person hates sin, and does not want sin by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit.

Which God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able to handle, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

If a person sins they should have the right attitude to not hold unto sin, and to move forward in the Spirit, and there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin, but we are in the flesh so we might want to sin, and sin, but there is still no excuse, and we have a choice and could of chose good.

Which the Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some have not the knowledge of God.

Which some people hold unto sin and believe they have salvation, which they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, from such turn away, and ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

So to have proper faith a person must have the right perspective of God and His kingdom, which God hates sin, and His kingdom is love.

The unregenerate do not have a spiritual faith that delivers, they only have faith in mankind. The regenerated person has been given (by God's grace) the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which faith is a fruit of. The regenerated person can be delivered, many times over, as he sojourns here in this world, but spiritual faith has nothing to do with his eternal deliverance. Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance".

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So...what are you doing? Not what others do ..what are you doing. Its clear.. He is talking to you. I can't speak for the millions of Churches around the world. There is a truth about salvation.. we can not save anyone. Not the answer I would have said.. but man comes to God by the holy Spirit.. as He draws them. And... His words to me when I was 15 "For God so loved the world.. everyone gets a choice".

Our works.. come about from our relationship with Him. Salvation is not based on works. Its something that just ..well SHINES from the new man in us.. that wants nothing more then to please HIM! To just say.. here I am lord use me! Not..do something good or you don't get to keep your salvation They go hand in hand

Your good works are commendable, but they do not cause you to keep your eternal deliverance. Christ died to pay for all of the sins of those people that his Father gave to him, and all of them will spend an everlasting life with him in heaven, without the loss of even one. John, chapter 6.

 

[Blik]

We can depend on the grace of the Lord to save us from our sin, but we are to give our sin to Christ for Him to forgive us. What of the sin we wish to keep? God gives us free will also, we are free to choose sin.

The OT outlines the way of the Lord, and we are given that outline as we are told of the of sins that blood God gave on the altar atoned for. It is a preview of Christ. One of the sins listed is the sins they were not aware of.

 

[DesertWanderer]

If this is happening it may be because people are not reading the Scripture complete. As you just did, they leave out the entire thought Paul was teaching. Why leave out verse 10 when you can not complete the teaching if you do?

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:10

Excellent point. This verse proves that we are not to sit idle.

 

[DesertWanderer]

So...what are you doing? Not what others do ..what are you doing.

A fair question. The answer is, not enough.

I find it a lot easier to help that homeless person on the street than it is to help a fellow brother or sister in Christ.

The reason for this is accessibility. The person on the street is accessible to me, whereas the fellow church member I only get to see and speak with for less than an hour a week-- maybe two hours if there is some special event such as a prayer breakfast.

My intent with this thread is to call out pastors and church leaders to start leading again in the area of service. I have prayed diligently for God to provide an earthly mentor who is not only knowledgeable about the entire bible but who is also willing to teach about service. Unfortunately, I am still waiting.

I was not necessarily calling out the members of the church. In fact, if it wasn't for the lowly congregants of most churches, their leaders would look even worse than they do now.

So to your point, I have a long way to go myself. But I hate being all alone. I am desperate for earthly leadership to help coach me in this area.

In the words of the great prophet, Doc Holliday, "My hypocrisy knows no bounds."

 

[DesertWanderer]

the fact is, God did want him to be saved, but God is not going to overrule his free will. There were tears in heaven when another lost soul died apart from Christ. .

Just curious. Is your lsat statement found in the scriptures, if so, I must have overlooked it. Could you help me with book, chapter and verse?

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4

...and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Mat. 20:28

 

[Magenta]

It is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Philippians 2:13

 

[DesertWanderer]

People should understand when Paul is speaking according to the flesh, and the Spirit, although no one comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

I've heard this concept before. Is there a verse or verses you can point me to concerning this? Thanks in advance.

 

[DesertWanderer]

The regenerated person can be delivered, many times over, as he sojourns here in this world, but spiritual faith has nothing to do with his eternal deliverance.

Forgive my ignorance as I am probably not as educated as you. This last statement went right past me.

Maybe you can offer a scriptural reference to help clarify? Thanks in advance

 

[DesertWanderer]

We are saved by faith, and not by works, when we first confess Christ, for we have not received the Spirit yet, so faith is all we can have, and our works of the flesh will not save us.

So, does that mean we should do nothing at all?

Are we to serve one another? If so, what would that look like?