ANGELS DO NOT HAVE FLESHLY BODIES

MyrtleTrees · Jul 15, 2020

I don't believe angels had fleshly bodies. They are only described as being spirits in the Bible. As such, they have been able to appear invisibly, to people. And sometimes looking like what they really look like - angels. Though sometimes, God has sent angels to mankind in visible form, to look like ordinary humans, too.

Sometimes visible - looking like humans, and other times, invisible:
Judg 13:20-21
20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.
21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.
KJV

Sometimes looking like what we commonly know angels to look like - as angels:
Num 22:23
23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
KJV

Diakonos · Jul 15, 2020

Depends on what you mean by "fleshly body".
Can you define what you mean before we answer?

bluto · Jul 15, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

First of all and more importantly is "the angle of the Lord" is not an actual angel. He's the preincarnate Jesus Christ.

Secondly, if you read Genesis 18:1-5 you will see (at vs1) the Lord appeared to him/Abraham. So like I said, the angel of the Lord who is identified as the Lord who physically appear to Abraham is the preincarnate Jesus Christ. The other two men that appeared with the angel of the Lord are "ACTUAL" angels.

Now, read first Genesis 18:33, "And as soon as He/the Lord had finished speaking to Abraham the Lord departed and Abraham returned to hsi place. Read now Genesis 19:1, "Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening etc. Does that make sense to you?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Nehemiah6 · Jul 15, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

That does not mean that angels cannot take human form and appear in human bodies. They are spirit beings with the capacity to take human form and speak human languages. We see this over and over again in Scripture.

Diakonos · Jul 15, 2020

bluto said:

Nehemiah6 said:

You are both correct. Angels are similar to God in the OT. They are by default spirit but have the capacity to materialize. They don't "have" a body, but can appear and pick things up and touch things if they wanted to.

E.g. "angels did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode" (I.e. the spiritual realm, resulting in the Nephalim)

Truth7t7 · Jul 15, 2020

bluto said:

First of all and more importantly is "the angle of the Lord" is not an actual angel. He's the preincarnate Jesus Christ.

Secondly, if you read Genesis 18:1-5 you will see (at vs1) the Lord appeared to him/Abraham. So like I said, the angel of the Lord who is identified as the Lord who physically appear to Abraham is the preincarnate Jesus Christ. The other two men that appeared with the angel of the Lord are "ACTUAL" angels.

Now, read first Genesis 18:33, "And as soon as He/the Lord had finished speaking to Abraham the Lord departed and Abraham returned to hsi place. Read now Genesis 19:1, "Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening etc. Does that make sense to you?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Are you claiming (Michael, The Arch Angel) is Jesus Christ?

Truth7t7 · Jul 15, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

Angels are seen in "Masculine" human form, interact with humans through talking, and they eat tangible earthly food.

Genesis 19:1-5KJV
19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

MyrtleTrees · Jul 15, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

Yes, i agree they were able to put on fleshly bodies - I thought I'd mentioned that here. However only when God arranged for them to come in that form, as sometimes He did. But ordinarily, the angels are just spirits, according to what I see in the Bible on that subject:

Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
KJV

Heb 1:7

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
KJV

Truth7t7 · Jul 15, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

Your claim is in error

"Only When God Arranged For Them"?

The scripture is very clear, the Angels that appeared with Jesus to Abraham's tent, to Lot in Sodom, and at the Ascension to heaven all had tangible bodies, these bodies spoke and ate earthly food.

Just because the scripture uses the words "Spirits" does not support your claim that God's Ministering Angels "Change Form"

The glorified body of the Believers will be tangible spiritual bodies, that will build houses, plant vineyards, catch fish, drink wine at the Lord's table in the New Heaven and Earth.

1 Corinthians 15:42:-44KJV
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Runningman · Jul 15, 2020

As far as I understand an angel is a messenger of God within the context of the Bible. That can be either a heavenly spirit being or a human. In either case it's someone sent by God to proclaim His message.

I don't think it is always defined as a heavenly spirit being, sometimes it's a person ordained by God to preach His message/do His will like Isaiah or John the Baptist.

MyrtleTrees · Jul 15, 2020

bluto said:

It looks to me that in Genesis chapter 18, there were 2 angels that appeared to Abraham. But in the same event, God Himself, also spoke directly to Abraham, too. And then, after their visit with Abraham was over, these 2 angels headed for Sodom and Gomorrha, where they were to eventually have to destroy the city. And i remember how when they got there to Lot's house, that lot invited them in, and then the gay men of the city came pounding on Lot's door, and asking for Lot to let out the 2 angels (they thought they were just men) so that they could have sex with them. Lot refused, but let his 2 daughters go out instead - big mistake there!

Jesus is a member of the trinity of God. There is just one true God. God's Spirit has been outpoured in the world now, ever since the day of Pentecost, soon after Jesus' ascension to heaven. God has just one Spirit. Sometimes, the scriptures refers to it as God's Spirit, and other times, as the Spirit of Jesus - so it's one and the same thing.

bluto · Jul 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

What! I assume you read every word I wrote so where would you get the idea that I think Jesus is Michael the arcangel?

In fact, it's virtually "IMPOSSIBLE" for the angel of the Lord to be Michael the arcangel and I can "Scriptually" prove it. And btw, I am not a jw. In fact, today I just posted a thread against the Jw's who of course deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Oh yea, one more thing. The Hebrew word for angel is "malak" and it simply means messenger. How the word is used depends on the context.

Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/angel/messenger," and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord whom you seek will suddengly come to His temple; and the "malak/angel/messenger" of the covenant, in whom you delifht, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of host."

The person that will clear the way of the Lord is none other than John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-4. The person that will come to His temple is none other than Jesus Christ. The person who is the "messenger" of the covenant is also the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ known as the angel of the Lord. (Judges 2:1 and at many other places.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Blik · Jul 15, 2020

All angels are not the same. There are three classers mentioned. Cherubim are also called Archangels, Seraphim are sometimes called Burning Ones, and Teraphim also called Watchers. Only the Teraphim can take on human form.

MyrtleTrees · Jul 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

i guess you're right - these 2 angels in Genesis 18, did eat food in that visit with Abraham. But even so, that is not their usual form. They came in fleshly form then - it has to be, since God's Word says they are spirits.

Well, angels sometimes were seen to have wings. But other times, they just looked like ordinary men. So to me, this indicates that they are able to come in different forms, according to what forms God chooses to send them to earth to deliver messages to people or do do errands for God.

In Genesis 18, they sound like they were in fleshly form, as I said, in this visit with Abraham. In `
Below, it tells of an angel leading the people of Israel from Egypt through the wilderness. It doesn't tell in this passage what it looked like, but i think it may have been the pillar of fire in nights, and the pillar of cloud in the day times;
Ex 32:34
34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
KJV
And here's one passage that makes it sound like the angel was invisible in this event, too;
John 5:3-4

3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
KJV
Also, the devil and demons are invisible - yet they are always around in this world, the Bible says.
Eph 6:11-12

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
KJV
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
KJV

Indeed, yes God's people in heaven from earth, after the end of the world, will have new, fleshly bodies.

MyrtleTrees · Jul 15, 2020

bluto said:

What! I assume you read every word I wrote so where would you get the idea that I think Jesus is Michael the arcangel?

In fact, it's virtually "IMPOSSIBLE" for the angel of the Lord to be Michael the arcangel and I can "Scriptually" prove it. And btw, I am not a jw. In fact, today I just posted a thread against the Jw's who of course deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Oh yea, one more thing. The Hebrew word for angel is "malak" and it simply means messenger. How the word is used depends on the context.

Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/angel/messenger," and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord whom you seek will suddengly come to His temple; and the "malak/angel/messenger" of the covenant, in whom you delifht, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of host."

The person that will clear the way of the Lord is none other than John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-4. The person that will come to His temple is none other than Jesus Christ. The person who is the "messenger" of the covenant is also the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ known as the angel of the Lord. (Judges 2:1 and at many other places.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

No - Michael the archangel isn't God - he is just an angel - I agree!

MyrtleTrees · Jul 15, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

True - the way the word, "angel" means different things according to it's context in the scriptures. Sometimes it means "God" - but most of the time, it just means "angels" - as we ordinarily think of angels as being like.

Truth7t7 · Jul 15, 2020

bluto said:

What! I assume you read every word I wrote so where would you get the idea that I think Jesus is Michael the arcangel?

In fact, it's virtually "IMPOSSIBLE" for the angel of the Lord to be Michael the arcangel and I can "Scriptually" prove it. And btw, I am not a jw. In fact, today I just posted a thread against the Jw's who of course deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Oh yea, one more thing. The Hebrew word for angel is "malak" and it simply means messenger. How the word is used depends on the context.

Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/angel/messenger," and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord whom you seek will suddengly come to His temple; and the "malak/angel/messenger" of the covenant, in whom you delifht, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of host."

The person that will clear the way of the Lord is none other than John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-4. The person that will come to His temple is none other than Jesus Christ. The person who is the "messenger" of the covenant is also the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ known as the angel of the Lord. (Judges 2:1 and at many other places.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

JW's and 7Th Day Adventist teach Jesus was Michael The Arch Angel.

Sry, just checking

Truth7t7 · Jul 15, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

i guess you're right - these 2 angels in Genesis 18, did eat food in that visit with Abraham. But even so, that is not their usual form. They came in fleshly form then - it has to be, since God's Word says they are spirits.

Well, angels sometimes were seen to have wings. But other times, they just looked like ordinary men. So to me, this indicates that they are able to come in different forms, according to what forms God chooses to send them to earth to deliver messages to people or do do errands for God.

In Genesis 18, they sound like they were in fleshly form, as I said, in this visit with Abraham. In `
Below, it tells of an angel leading the people of Israel from Egypt through the wilderness. It doesn't tell in this passage what it looked like, but i think it may have been the pillar of fire in nights, and the pillar of cloud in the day times;
Ex 32:34
34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
KJV
And here's one passage that makes it sound like the angel was invisible in this event, too;
John 5:3-4

3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
KJV
Also, the devil and demons are invisible - yet they are always around in this world, the Bible says.
Eph 6:11-12

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
KJV
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
KJV

Indeed, yes God's people in heaven from earth, after the end of the world, will have new, fleshly bodies.

Jesus Christ ascended into heaven in a tangible body of flesh and Bone, that could talk, eat earthly food, and enter a room while doors were shut, vanish from the sight of man.

Angels appear to have a similar, if not the same body as the Lord, clearly described by scripture.

It appears that the world's assumption of female angels with long hair, floating around with harps has your perception.

Angels are Masculine, tangible, talk, eat earthly food.

The eternal Kingdom in the New Heaven and Earth will have houses being built, vineyards planted, fishermen, fishing nets, fruit eaten.

A tangible world to the human mind, yet eternal.

p_rehbein · Jul 15, 2020

I've spent some time now "searching" about angles/fleshly bodies or not............ and it should please everyone that there is ZERO agreement among the various Articles I have found........

It appears that one can take a certain stance on this and will be just as right or just as wrong on anyone who takes an opposing stance........and there are Scriptures to support both sides.

Blik · Jul 15, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

When scripture speaks of angels it is accurately speaking of angels not God. We can trust scripture. If we won't listen to scripture as it defines the different classes of angels but put them all into one kind of being then we are mixed up about what scripture is talking about.

ANGELS DO NOT HAVE FLESHLY BODIES

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