Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[Grandpa]

And non-Calvinists do not believe we cause ourselves to be saved that is a false accusation.

Yes they do.

Or they are just not being honest.

If YOU must believe and YOU must do things in order to be saved then YOUR doing those things CAUSES your salvation.



You believe that by what you do you cause God to act. I believe it is the opposite. And I believe the bible agrees with me.

God causes US to act. God draws us to Christ. God regenerates us. We are His Workmanship. Not the other way around.

 

[Grandpa]

Then you view of sovereignty is not quite so "Calvinistic" for lack of a better word.

Yet God's grace is irresistible?

For those who are being saved it is.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes they do.

Or they are just not being honest.

If YOU must believe and YOU must do things in order to be saved then YOUR doing those things CAUSES your salvation.



You believe that by what you do you cause God to act. I believe it is the opposite. And I believe the bible agrees with me.

God causes US to act. God draws us to Christ. God regenerates us. We are His Workmanship. Not the other way around.

You mean He forces regeneration.

 

[Grandpa]

Can we agree that salvation comes from hearing the Gospel?
Is this saving faith?

Salvation comes from Christ.

You can preach the gospel to 1000 people. It doesn't mean that those 1000 people are saved. Only those who come to Christ are saved.

 

[Grandpa]

You mean He forces regeneration.

Yes.

If being blessed means that God Forced that blessing upon you, then yes, He forces it.

Especially considering that you weren't able to Bless your own self by your own works or your own wisdom or your own will.

 

[EleventhHour]

Salvation comes from Christ.

You can preach the gospel to 1000 people. It doesn't mean that those 1000 people are saved. Only those who come to Christ are saved.

Yes but in Calvinism those who come have no choice but to respond because God has selected them.

You have yet to make a scriptural case why God chooses to only save some when He could save all?

Either He is incompetent, morally ambiguous or unwilling.

Yet scripture refutes "unwilling" so you are left with either incompetent or morally ambiguous?

 

[Grandpa]

Yes but in Calvinism those who come have no choice but to respond because God has selected them.

You have yet to make a scriptural case why God chooses to only save some when He could save all?

Either He is incompetent, morally ambiguous or unwilling.

Yet scripture refutes "unwilling" so you are left with either incompetent or morally ambiguous?

All of Scripture shows God separating the Saved from the unsaved.

Either you refuse to see it or you haven't read it.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes they do.

Or they are just not being honest.

If YOU must believe and YOU must do things in order to be saved then YOUR doing those things CAUSES your salvation.



You believe that by what you do you cause God to act. I believe it is the opposite. And I believe the bible agrees with me.

God causes US to act. God draws us to Christ. God regenerates us. We are His Workmanship. Not the other way around.

They don't understand that since faith is the gift of God, it means God gave them the belief they have in the gospel.

They seem to think the gift of faith means the gift of deciding. No. They believe because God caused them to believe. That makes them a believer, not a decider, or chooser, it is someone that believes the gospel. That is the consequence of salvation, not the cause, it was given to them (true converts) by God. This is why we call it "conversion."

It is absurd to think that God caused them to believe by granting faith, and that they then need to activate something. Nope. If you have faith you're a believer. Believing means converted, and that comes from God, 2 Peter 1:1; Ephesians 1:19.

 

[lenna]

They don't understand that since faith is the gift of God, it means God gave them the belief they have in the gospel.

They seem to think the gift of faith means the gift of deciding. No. They believe because God caused them to believe. That makes them a believer, not a decider, or chooser, it is someone that believes the gospel. That is the consequence of salvation, not the cause, it was given to them (true converts) by God. This is why we call it "conversion."

It is absurd to think that God caused them to believe by granting faith, and that they then need to activate something. Nope. If you have faith you're a believer. Believing means converted, and that comes from God, 2 Peter 1:1; Ephesians 1:19.

good thing God does not view US as the they-thems who are so beneath the dignity of Calvinism

 

[preacher4truth]

People should note that whenever the Gospel is presented in Scripture, it is always the GRACE OF GOD that is emphasized, never His sovereignty. Salvation is by GRACE through faith, not salvation is by SOVEREIGNTY through faith.

You sure expend a lot of energy on your animosity toward Sovereign God and His electing grace don't you?

When Christ is and was preached as LORD, the people then understood what it means, that He is God and is therefore Sovereign. Except for you and a few others who are hoodwinked.

In your false truncated "gospel" when you preach, you make man "god" and "sovereign" in his "free will to choose himself into heaven." That dethrones God and is a huge error.

The issue is none are saved via choosing or will, John 1:13, John 6:63; James 1:18 . It is dogmatically refuted there, but you don't care about that, you loathe this so much you try to suppress this truth.

It is instead God who chooses (elects) to salvation whom He wills, so it is by His will, not mans and certainly not yours, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31; Ephesians 1:4, Romans 9:11 &c. You would be on your way to an eternal hell if He didn't choose to elect you by His own purpose, counsel and will, not yours. You just happen to hate that truth and spend exorbitant amounts of time fighting it with your "man is sovereign" heresy. Where are you, in Alberta? I think I saw that on your profile, and obviously Finneys false "gospel" has reached as far as where you are.

So keep it up, keep detracting from the glory of God in your false "gospel" and we will continue giving Him all the glory, giving none to man.

 

[EleventhHour]

They don't understand that since faith is the gift of God, it means God gave them the belief they have in the gospel.

They seem to think the gift of faith means the gift of deciding. No. They believe because God caused them to believe. That makes them a believer, not a decider, or chooser, it is someone that believes the gospel. That is the consequence of salvation, not the cause, it was given to them (true converts) by God. This is why we call it "conversion."

It is absurd to think that God caused them to believe by granting faith, and that they then need to activate something. Nope. If you have faith you're a believer. Believing means converted, and that comes from God, 2 Peter 1:1; Ephesians 1:19.

What is absurd is a God who is so insecure in His sovereignty that He cannot let people even receive what He offers as a free gift but has to

compel them to accept.

 

[EleventhHour]

You sure expend a lot of energy on your animosity toward Sovereign God and His electing grace don't you?

When Christ is and was preached as LORD, the people then understood what it means, that He is God and is therefore Sovereign. Except for you and a few others who are hoodwinked.

In your false truncated "gospel" when you preach, you make man "god" and "sovereign" in his "free will to choose himself into heaven." That dethrones God and is a huge error.

The issue is none are saved via choosing or will, John 1:13, John 6:63; James 1:18 . It is dogmatically refuted there, but you don't care about that, you loathe this so much you try to suppress this truth.

It is instead God who chooses (elects) to salvation whom He wills, so it is by His will, not mans and certainly not yours, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31; Ephesians 1:4, Romans 9:11 &c. You would be on your way to an eternal hell if He didn't choose to elect you by His own purpose, counsel and will, not yours. You just happen to hate that truth and spend exorbitant amounts of time fighting it with your "man is sovereign" heresy. Where are you, in Alberta? I think I saw that on your profile, and obviously Finneys false "gospel" has reached as far as where you are.

So keep it up, keep detracting from the glory of God in your false "gospel" and we will continue giving Him all the glory, giving none to man.

The tenets of Calvinism not only detracts from the glory of God it fashions God to fit a schema that is not even biblical.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You sure expend a lot of energy on your animosity toward Sovereign God and His electing grace don't you?

Why would any Christian have animosity towards the sovereignty of God when it is an absolute fact? Heaven is God's throne, and earth is His footstool.

By the same token, you will not find a single Gospel passage bringing the sovereignty of God to the forefront. It is ALWAYS the grace of God that is at the core of the Gospel. And the grace of God bringeth salvation TO ALL MEN. Not a handful of the so-called "elect".

TITUS 2: THE GRACE OF GOD BRINGS SALVATION TO ALL MEN
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Christ deliberately and specifically gave us three parables regarding the grace of God which brings salvation to all men: (1) the Lost Sheep, (2) the Lost Coin, and (3) the Lost Son. God and Christ go out of their way to bring sinners to themselves.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Christians should carefully examine this passage to see if sovereignty is mentioned:
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)... (Ephesians 2:4,5)

Paul uses the three words which are at the heart of the Gospel: (1) mercy, (2) great love, and (3) grace. And that is what the Gospel is all about. So Calvinists have falsely substituted sovereignty for grace, and thus produced ANOTHER GOSPEL.

 

[Duskey]

That's not exactly what I said. That's what you said. But here's your scripture;

Romans 9:22-24
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Your fellow calvinists on CC have said God has created some people specifically for damnation. As far as the Scriptures you shared, you’re reaching really badly.

 

[Duskey]

You sure expend a lot of energy on your animosity toward Sovereign God and His electing grace don't you?.

I noticed you haven’t spent any energy whatsoever responding to post #2745. And don’t punk out by stating it’s not worth responding to because you know full well you can’t respond to the issue at hand in a way that affirms calvinism in a biblically correct manner, hence why you hid from the challenge.

 

[Grandpa]

Your fellow calvinists on CC have said God has created some people specifically for damnation. As far as the Scriptures you shared, you’re reaching really badly.

Really?

What do you think those scriptures say?

They seem abundantly clear and obvious to me.

 

[EleventhHour]

Really?

What do you think those scriptures say?

They seem abundantly clear and obvious to me.

Why do only non - Calvinists understand Romans 9?

Strange.

 

[lenna]

Fair enough, I want to stop too. Have a great day in Jesus name and for His glory. I don't just meant this as a slogan either, I do appreciate the deescalation, I agree with the sentiment. BTW I didn't ever feel shame.

no you don't

you just came back and started putting x's on posts over a week old

why? very childish

you are just like a kid who discovered indelible ink. I can see you laughing as you mark things

I'll trade you an x for an x

I'm not even posting here for the most part

Because I'm free to do whatever God leads me to do.

are you saying He led you to mark all the x's? I guess if you have those Calvinist tendencies that is how you see it


thanks for letting me know who you really are

 

[EleventhHour]

Really?

What do you think those scriptures say?

They seem abundantly clear and obvious to me.

Romans 9:18 does not fit your dogma of election