Not By Works

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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NO, it is HEAVEN, and I can Prove It.

Luke 23:43 (HCSB)
43 And He said to him, I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.”
Jesus was not in Heaven with the Father until three days later...
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
NIV 1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

Clearly states that Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
It's not about doing a certain amount of repenting to be close enough to God,
NASB Ephesians 2:8 8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

NIV John 5:24 24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

Amen.

Let us always be on guard for those that preach a different Gospel, a different Jesus.

I have been thinking a lot recently how the wolf infiltrates the flock and how tirelessly Paul worked to protect the newly converted.

I always thought of them on the periphery circling around... however not the case they infiltrate.
They are merciless and deceptive as they move about destroying people.

“And from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.”
Acts 20:30

But we know this......

“Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth"
John 17:17
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Jesus was not in Heaven with the Father until three days later...



Magenta, GOD, you may have forgotten, that HE is an Omnipresent Spirit, therefore GOD THE FATHER is Omnipresent in HEAVEN and on EARTH.


John 14:7-10 (HCSB)
7 “If you know Me, you will also know My Father. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
8 “Lord,” said Philip, “show us the Father, and that’s enough for us.”
9
Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.


2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Also during those three days, he ascended spiritually to the Father to Proclaim the Victory to HIS Father and the ANGELS IN HEAVEN, and Descended into HADES to proclaim His Victory to FALLEN ANGELS in the PIT, who had tried to stop HIM from coming as Messiah, by totally polluting the Human Race.

When HE said to Mary Magdalene that He had not ascended to the Father, HE is talking about HIS BODY, with the BLOOD of the CROSS still in it. As High Priest HE had to Ascend in that BODY to pour the Remaining BLOOD out around the Base of the ALTAR.

John 20:15-18 (NIV)
15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).
17 Jesus said, "Do not hold {CLING} on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (HCSB)
8 and we are confident and satisfied to be out of the body and at home with the Lord.

HOW DO WE KNOW THE LORD WENT TO HEAVEN ? ? ?

2 Corinthians 5:8 (NKJV)
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

His Death is co-equal to our Death.

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
6 "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (ESV)
8 Therefore it says, When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?
10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)


Those verses, in my Opinion, was fulfilled by CHRIST, during HIS days in the GRAVE.

That EXPRESSION, he led a host of captives, is of a ROMAN VICTORY PARADE. Christ, I believe HE went to Hades to PROCLAIM His Victory and Lead those that were holding believers hostage, most likely Death and Hades, at least Symbolically. Led them as Captives all the way to Heaven, before HE released them. BUT HE LITERALLY WENT TO THE FATHER, to proclaim Victory to Angels of Heaven.

So HE came back for HIS BODY, to Resurrect it, and to be our HIGH PRIEST in HEAVEN.

Leviticus 8:14-19 (HCSB)
14 Then he brought the bull near for the sin offering, and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the head of the bull for the sin offering.
15 Then Moses slaughtered ⌊it⌋, took the blood, and applied it with his finger to the horns of the altar on all sides, purifying the altar. He poured out the blood at the base of the altar and consecrated it so that atonement can be made on it.
16 Moses took all the fat that was on the entrails, the fatty lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys with their fat, and he burned them on the altar.
17 He burned up the bull with its hide, flesh, and dung outside the camp, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
18 Then he presented the ram for the burnt offering, and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the head of the ram.
19 Moses slaughtered it and sprinkled the blood on all sides of the altar.


HIS Body had not been to Heaven, but HIS Spirit had been, shortly after HE was Dead. In that body was the residue of HIS BLOOD, that HE HAD TO Sprinkle along all sides of the Heavenly Altar.


Revelation 1:17-18 (HCSB)
17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. He laid His right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last,
18 and the Living One. I was dead, but look—I am alive forever and ever, and I hold the keys of Death and Hades.

Revelation 20:13-15 (HCSB)
13 Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works.
14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.


No, I do not buy that theory that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth, is the GRAVE, IDEA.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,207
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Magenta, GOD, you may have forgotten, that HE is an Omnipresent Spirit, therefore GOD THE FATHER is Omnipresent in HEAVEN and on EARTH.
Sure, but we are speaking of a specific place, and to say heaven in this regard means the dwelling place of God.

Jesus did not ascend to His Father there until three days after His crucifixion.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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Sure, but we are speaking of a specific place, and to say heaven in this regard means the dwelling place of God.

Jesus did not ascend to His Father there until three days after His crucifixion.

You did not read all of my Post. Let me abbreviate it for you.

Jesus Had to have gone to Heaven, immediately After his death. Because the BIBLE says absent from the BODY is equal to Present with the LORD. SO, absent from the BODY is equal to being present with the Lord GOD, the FATHER.

When He talked to MARY, he was referring to HIS BODY, because HE had to Pour Out the remaining BLOOD around the Altar in HEAVEN; is why she could not continue to CLING to HIS BODY. That is the Duty for the HIGH PRIEST during the SIN OFFERING.

John 20:17 (NKJV)
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' " {HE is only talking about HIS Body has Not Gone to Heaven YET.}

Then we have an event that is only covered in three verses VAGUELY ? ? ? Ephesians 4:8-10 (ESV)

Not exactly! THERE are Many things Jesus did, that were NOT even reported in the BIBLE. We only have the Highlights recorded.


John 20:30-31 (NRSV)
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book.
31 But these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name.

John 21:24-25 (NASB)
24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I have been "working" of late I will admit..... on my golf swing. :)

We are not saved by grace and kept saved by works.

We are saved by grace and kept by grace.

“For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” John 1:17
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I guess I am going down hill FAST. I just developed GOUT in my Left Big Toe. I remember when my Grandmother had it. And it is NO FUN AT ALL. Feels like a Dairy Cow stepped on my foot on cement.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I guess I am going down hill FAST. I just developed GOUT in my Left Big Toe. I remember when my Grandmother had it. And it is NO FUN AT ALL. Feels like a Dairy Cow stepped on my foot on cement.
Remedy is tart cherries.

Works like a charm.
 
Jun 18, 2020
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I guess I am going down hill FAST. I just developed GOUT in my Left Big Toe. I remember when my Grandmother had it. And it is NO FUN AT ALL. Feels like a Dairy Cow stepped on my foot on cement.
.
My brother had it off 'n on in his early 40's - his diet was a bit opulent and had to curtail some things. He said it hurt alot too.
.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
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hmmmm... I'll have to let my brother know next time it hits him. He had some in the past. Thanks !
.

Will check the Farmers Market, I do have a vine full of Tart Concord Grapes. Maybe they could Help too.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I guess I am going down hill FAST. I just developed GOUT in my Left Big Toe. I remember when my Grandmother had it. And it is NO FUN AT ALL. Feels like a Dairy Cow stepped on my foot on cement.
Too much acid.....google and research....seems there are a few things that can help
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Moving is not for sissies. Been moving since last Thursday July 31st. Praise God for getting us through it.
It is a lot of work for sure.

Hang in there, it all gets done sooner or later... although sometimes it is more on the later side. ;)
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I guess I am going down hill FAST. I just developed GOUT in my Left Big Toe. I remember when my Grandmother had it. And it is NO FUN AT ALL. Feels like a Dairy Cow stepped on my foot on cement.
Not sure if you had a chance to search out the internet, but I found this and it gives useful information about it being tied to uric acid in the body and diet.

LINK
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
And we gave away a lot of "stuff." We sold some "stuff" and we still have "stuff." lolol
Giving away stuff is fun,

Garage sales are fun too....I had some old albums from my parents and advertised on Kijiji wow they were lined up at my door at 5:30 am

The best is that light feeling when all you do not need is gone. :)