You Will Know Them By Their Fruits.

[seed_time_harvest]

My understanding is you will know people by the results of their actions. Meaning, people could say anything they want, but in the end their actions demonstrate their words, more specifically, the results of their actions, whether good or bad. Godspeed.

He feels that honoring the physical sacraments like when they take the LORDs supper that thats an outward display of an Inward change.

But the Bible says all work will be tested to see what manner of work It Is If It was truly done out of love for GOD or If It was done out of obligation and for the people to see so they will be accepted.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

My understanding is you will know people by the results of their actions. Meaning, people could say anything they want, but in the end their actions demonstrate their words, more specifically, the results of their actions, whether good or bad. Godspeed.

If It Was done truly from the heart then It would be spiritual but first a person would have to humble themselves and repent and I just don’t see how they would be able to drop pride and think well,I can’t judge the people that don’t believe In the beautiful sacraments because I cant see If they are sincere thinking because they honor the sacraments that they are better than those that don’t do those works.

 

[lenna]

lenna said:
well she is right. I am very familiar with Catholicism as my father was Catholic before accepting Christ. And believe me, he tried very hard to be a good Catholic, including going on his knees up rough stone stairs trying to get an answer to prayer.

now I see you are Catholic which is why I say the above. I had a few best friends who were also Catholic and my SIL was Catholic. So, no triggers here. I'm not Protestant. I am a Christian and do not identify with the political and geographical pursuits of either side, for example King Henry the viii being excommunicated by the pope who would not grant him an annulment. So then the reformation was launched and Catholicism became less popular. I am sure that was what God intended, mind you He used it to some extent, but that's God for you. Able to turn things around for the good.

Henry also greatly benefited with regards to filling his coffers with Cromwell as his chief minister, ordering 800 monasteries to be disbanded with their lands and gold/treasures, taken for the crown. Interestingly, Henry never became a Protestant himself, having been indoctrinated into Catholicism and suffering from the usual superstitions



actually, you are calling others false who disagree with YOUR faith. I guess you missed that though?

you were being evasive about the fact you are Catholic. let's be honest and if you want to employ the use of the word 'triggered', then extend it to your particular beliefs and the fact you are so quick to defend them. Fine. defend them. but you know very well that those who are not Catholic do not believe in some of the most 'sacred' things that you do.
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Bbrdrd said:

No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.

There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.

Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
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A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.


Seems like easy responses to those two post.
You might need someone to help you respond to so many post that oppose your views.

not gonna change either

 

[oldethennew]

sth, we can't make sense of your post - it just doesn't make sense...please explain further, if you want???

 

[Benadam]

There is a very big difference between the Catholic Eucharist (or Mass) and the Christian observance of the Lord's Supper. Kindly go the the Catholic New Advent Encyclopedia and study the matter. The Mass is a LITERAL sacrifice. Christ is RE-SACRIFICED at the Mass.

Same Sacrifice. It's an eternal reality. The lamb is slain from the foundation of world. And from the throne of God and the lamb flows a river.

Even if you and I disagree on the matter, the Bread from Heaven isn't going to change.

 

[oldethennew]

in one sense you are right Ben, but on a reality level, our Eternal Lamb was slain 'before' the
foundation of the world, and now a mirror-image - Holy Spirit=God/Jesus=ONE-GOD, ONE FAITH, ONE SPIRIT......

 

[Benadam]

supper that thats an outward display of an Inward change.

Thank you seed-time-harvest. That's very close. The ritual is a visible sign. What God does at Baptism say, is miraculous. We don't receive Baptism by thinking it or by believing it, not that that isn't possible. So, remember the scripture what you bind on earth is bound in heaven? When the sign has been made visible God acts. It is the way of many things. When a man and woman produce an individual human God binds that in heaven and creates an individual soul. Same with the Sacraments . What is bound on earth is bound in heaven.

 

[Benadam]

I'm not sure what you mean. Mmmm I know you believe Jesus forgives sins today and tomorrow even though His Sacrifice is an event in time long past. You are able to access His forgiveness because that's an eternal reality. Same today yesterday and tomorrow.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Same Sacrifice. It's an eternal reality.

The Bibles says that Christ's sacrifice was ONE SACRIFICE for sins forever. The Catholic Church has changed that to a daily sacrifice by a human priest at an altar with a bloodless sacrifice. That is a travesty of the one sacrifice for sins forever.

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God (Hebrews 10:12).

Do you understand the significance of "sat down on the right hand of God"? As long as the Old Covenant was in force, and the temple was still in place, the High Priest could never sit down in the temple. His work was never finished, and he was not given a chair to sit down within the Holy Place. In contrast, it is because Christ FINISHED the work of redemption with ONE SACRIFICE for sins for ever, that He sat down at the right hand of God. The Catholic Church has violated this truth by its sacrificial and sacerdotal system of the Mass.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

sth, we can't make sense of your post - it just doesn't make sense...please explain further, if you want???

which one?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

sth, we can't make sense of your post - it just doesn't make sense...please explain further, if you want???

If you are talking about this post below,I see what you mean,after reading It now It sounded like complete gibberish.I will rewrite It hopefully more understandable.

If It Was done truly from the heart then It would be spiritual but first a person would have to humble themselves and repent and I just don’t see how they would be able to drop pride and think well,I can’t judge the people that don’t believe In the beautiful sacraments because I cant see If they are sincere thinking because they honor the sacraments that they are better than those that don’t do those works.

If It Was done truly from the heart then It would be spiritual

Although keeping the sacraments Is a physical thing,only GOD can see a person's motive so then If It was sincere I would say It Is spiritual fruit(love for GOD)But If It Is done out of obligation thinking like saying I don't want people to see me not showing honor to GOD) Then that will be a work that Is not of spiritual truth and will be burned up (talking about rewards at the judgement seat of CHRIST).

but first a person would have to humble themselves and repent and I just don’t see how they would be able to drop pride and think,well,I can’t judge the people that don’t believe In the beautiful sacraments.

IMO,the Catholic person feels that the way they worship the sacraments Is the correct way and they would Never repent and not do the sacrament Is holy thing but just like they don't think that we should judge them they should realize that they shouldn't judge either but a person would have to repent/go a different way and I don't think that Is going to happen.

 

[Benadam]

If you are talking about this post below,I see what you mean,after reading It now It sounded like complete gibberish.I will rewrite It hopefully more understandable.

1fruit(love for GOD)But If It Is done out of obligation thinking like saying I don't want people to see me not showing honor to GOD) Then that will be a work that Is not of spiritual truth and will be burned up (talking about rewards at the judgement seat of CHRIST)

God knows our hearts. That's central when we receive a Sacrament. True that. If we confess a sin but have no intention to stop doing it..how can it be forgiven?.If we confess out of fear of hell that's good but childlike love. If we are sorry because we know our sin offends God that's a matured heart.

IMO,the Catholic person feels that the way they worship the sacraments Is the correct way and they would Never repent and not do the sacrament Is holy thing but just like they don't think that we should judge them they should realize that they shouldn't judge either but a person would have to repent/go a different way and I don't think that Is going to happen.

I do agree.
But this is a bit confusing. Protestants view the Catholic Church as the Harlot. The tool of antichrist etc. Some of that spills over onto Catholics.

Compare that to;

The Catholic Church teaches that Protestants are separated brethren. Authentic Christians among whom the Holy Spirit moves.
Just sayin'

 

[Benadam]

The Bibles says that Christ's sacrifice was ONE SACRIFICE for sins forever. The Catholic Church has changed that to a daily sacrifice by a human priest at an altar with a bloodless sacrifice. That is a travesty of the one sacrifice for sins forever.

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God (Hebrews 10:12).

Do you understand the significance of "sat down on the right hand of God"? As long as the Old Covenant was in force, and the temple was still in place, the High Priest could never sit down in the temple. His work was never finished, and he was not given a chair to sit down within the Holy Place. In contrast, it is because Christ FINISHED the work of redemption with ONE SACRIFICE for sins for ever, that He sat down at the right hand of God. The Catholic Church has violated this truth by its sacrificial and sacerdotal system of the Mass.

Christ finished the last supper too. There are four cups not three at the Passover meal. When Jesus knew all was finished, so that scriptures would be fulfilled He said" I Thirst". Then when he tasted the sour wine He drank the fourth cup and His work is finished and the Passover meal at that moment was finished too.

 

[Benadam]

well she is right. I am very familiar with Catholicism as my father was Catholic before accepting Christ. And believe me, he tried very hard to be a good Catholic, including going on his knees up rough stone stairs trying to get an answer to prayer.

now I see you are Catholic which is why I say the above. I had a few best friends who were also Catholic and my SIL was Catholic. So, no triggers here. I'm not Protestant. I am a Christian and do not identify with the political and geographical pursuits of either side, for example King Henry the viii being excommunicated by the pope who would not grant him an annulment. So then the reformation was launched and Catholicism became less popular. I am sure that was what God intended, mind you He used it to some extent, but that's God for you. Able to turn things around for the good.

Henry also greatly benefited with regards to filling his coffers with Cromwell as his chief minister, ordering 800 monasteries to be disbanded with their lands and gold/treasures, taken for the crown. Interestingly, Henry never became a Protestant himself, having been indoctrinated into Catholicism and suffering from the usual superstitions



actually, you are calling others false who disagree with YOUR faith. I guess you missed that though?

you were being evasive about the fact you are Catholic. let's be honest and if you want to employ the use of the word 'triggered', then extend it to your particular beliefs and the fact you are so quick to defend them. Fine. defend them. but you know very well that those who are not Catholic do not believe in some of the most 'sacred' things that you do.

Lenna, I only know a few Catholics who walked on their knees as a devotion. It's not pride or status that motivates them. Not that it doesn't happen I suppose.

What does it matter if I'm Catholic if I'm talking about and using Scriptures? Do

There is no papacy in the gospels and as I said we can look through the history of the church to see how the papacy developed beginning with a loose episcopacy led by Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria and later Constantinople followed by a church led by the emperor as the unofficial head with Rome's primary claim of authority being Paul rather than Peter until Leo I created the papacy and argued for the lineage of Peter.

We can trace the distinctives of Catholicism through history to see how they developed over time. We can pinpoint originators of doctrine, such as how papal infallibility didn't even become a claim until the 17th century. Prior to that councils superceded papal decrees.

We can see markers in the history of the papacy of its expansion, especially under Gregory VI and VII and Pius IX. The Scriptural justifications are thin coverings for very human developments of the papacy.

That all sounds bias and full of misperceptions. That happens because the critic didn't bother to plumb the depth of the subject. So they fill in the spaces with their bias. I wouldn't mind a scripturally based discussion on these matters.

 

[Benadam]

The Bibles says that Christ's sacrifice was ONE SACRIFICE for sins forever. The Catholic Church has changed that to a daily sacrifice by a human priest at an altar with a bloodless sacrifice. That is a travesty of the one sacrifice for sins forever.

One Sacrifice. I agree. For sins forever. Yes it's forever. That's how Our sins today were visited upon Him 2000 years ago. Because it's an eternal reality that Jesus makes present. At every moment. That's where eternity is found. Now. How many times did Jesus say that something was coming and follow that with "now is". The Catholic mass is worship at the foot of the cross an entrance to the worship in heaven that surrounds the throne in this moment.

 

[lenna]

Lenna, I only know a few Catholics who walked on their knees as a devotion. It's not pride or status that motivates them. Not that it doesn't happen I suppose.

What does it matter if I'm Catholic if I'm talking about and using Scriptures? Do

That all sounds bias and full of misperceptions. That happens because the critic didn't bother to plumb the depth of the subject. So they fill in the spaces with their bias. I wouldn't mind a scripturally based discussion on these matters.

please leave me alone

I am not interested in conversing with you

Catholicism has led millions astray and I don't have time to waste on it

thank you for your understanding. I will also put you on ignore to facilitate my request as another precaution

 

[Bbrdrd]

Lenna, I only know a few Catholics who walked on their knees as a devotion. It's not pride or status that motivates them. Not that it doesn't happen I suppose.

What does it matter if I'm Catholic if I'm talking about and using Scriptures? Do

That all sounds bias and full of misperceptions. That happens because the critic didn't bother to plumb the depth of the subject. So they fill in the spaces with their bias. I wouldn't mind a scripturally based discussion on these matters.

Simply because history does not agree with your position does not make it biased. Having a discussion of Scripture on the things separating catholics and protestants isn't really possible considering the myriad of medieval ideas that Catholics cling to that color their perceptions.

 

[tantalon]

There is only ONE Church every born again believer belongs to, and that is the body of Christ that the Holy Spirit makes us a member of. Denominations are man made churches that show bias according to their doctrines of interpretations. We as Christians attend these institutions for worship and fellowship, but must always be discerning of false doctrine revealed through the word of God. To call oneself according to a denominational tag, is to identify oneself with a potential misrepresentation of Christ and God's word. We carry only the title of Christian, that is, a follower of our Saviour and his word, and nothing else.