My take on water baptism...

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L

lenna

Guest
The better question is why should anyone be baptized in water? Was being baptized in Christ not enough? The same debate was going on two thousand years ago with circumcision. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.
you are heretical if you insist there is no teaching about water baptism in scripture

Jesus Himself was baptized and at that moment a voice from heaven was heard to say ' this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased' and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove

baptism is not a request, it is clearly commanded but it is not the way to salvation, but rather evidence of being aligned with Christ in His burial (end of one life) and then coming out of the water, meaning a new life

I think people should start reporting your false teaching. It is distinctly heretical. heretical teaching is harmful and not the gospel of the Bible
 
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what do you add to your salvation by taking communion? yet the Lord said do this in remembrance of Him.

this is not at all the same debate as circumcision. you can actually find scripture warning against circumcision.
but Peter, you cannot find one single passage saying one negative thing about water baptism, can you? that's why your only legitimate argument in 30 pages is '
it doesn't save you'

so tell me if taking the Lord's supper is what saves you?
does attending a congregation redeem you?
are you born again because you regularly study the Bible?
is your justification before God based on praying?


i don't think it's a very sound argument for you to forbid any good work that the scripture encourages on the basis that it's not strictly necessary to be saved.

being filled with the Spirit or not doesn't save you either, Peter. yet Christ's commanded to be water baptized those who had been filled with the Spirit just by hearing and believing. Acts 10:47-48
so your argument is with him. you're calling him a false teacher, which in turn is accusing the One who sent him of the same thing. btw, a little math -- Acts 10 comes after Acts 2.





:coffee:
It's not there in Acts 10:48. You keep saying that it is. But it's not. They baptized in the name of the Lord in verse 48. Not in water as someone suggested in verse 47.
 
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you are heretical if you insist there is no teaching about water baptism in scripture

Jesus Himself was baptized and at that moment a voice from heaven was heard to say ' this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased' and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove

baptism is not a request, it is clearly commanded but it is not the way to salvation, but rather evidence of being aligned with Christ in His burial (end of one life) and then coming out of the water, meaning a new life

I think people should start reporting your false teaching. It is distinctly heretical. heretical teaching is harmful and not the gospel of the Bible
Jesus was baptized before Pentecost had fully come. In Acts chapter 2 is when the New Testament had started.
 
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another good question is how in the world does someone be Spirit-baptized for the dead?
((see 1 Corinthians 15:29))


ans: they don't. that's H2O baptism Paul's talking about. and he says it just like it's the same baptism he preaches to all believers, only it's people doing it in place for those who have died. if Paul didn't preach H2O baptism, then why doesn't he make a distinction?
All of Paul's teachings are about what we have in Christ. Your either baptized in water or baptized in Christ. One was before the gospel of Christ that started on the day the Church of God started in Acts chapter 2. The other water baptism is what they did before the spirit of Christ had been available. You can't have them both. Either you are walking in Christ or your walking in your flesh looking for water to clean you.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
Peter has said in a previous post that when Peter said who can forbid water, that someone must have said "I forbid it" or something crazy like that. He said they answer was no and they did not use water.
Here it is #204 "The only question in Acts 10:47 was should we use water and the answer must have been no because Peter did not use water in the next verse. " Now that is some messed up flagrant, adulterating of the word of God by someone who has decided to violate all rules of hermeneutics and march to the beat of his own drum. That is why I asked if he is living in a compound in Waco. He is either part of an existing cult or trying to start one of his own. There is no excuse for the things he has said since he started this thread. If I was moderator I would have already banned him as a heretic. His is the worse kind of heresy because he stays just under the radar dripping a constant heneious drop of poison. Jesus said go and baptize all nations in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, Mt 28:19 Peterlag says.. "surely you shall not baptize" .... "has God said to baptize? He did not mean with water..." (snake tongue slithering in and out) :devilish:
 
S

Scribe

Guest
you are heretical if you insist there is no teaching about water baptism in scripture

Jesus Himself was baptized and at that moment a voice from heaven was heard to say ' this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased' and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove

baptism is not a request, it is clearly commanded but it is not the way to salvation, but rather evidence of being aligned with Christ in His burial (end of one life) and then coming out of the water, meaning a new life

I think people should start reporting your false teaching. It is distinctly heretical. heretical teaching is harmful and not the gospel of the Bible
I reported him today.
 
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Perhaps I missed your responce but actually acts speaks more on water baptism than any other book in the bible here are only some examples

Acts 2:37-41

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.

8:5-13

And Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and proclaimed unto them the Christ. And the multitudes gave heed with one accord unto the things that were spoken by Philip, when they heard, and saw the signs which he did. For from many of those that had unclean spirits, they came out, crying with a loud voice: and many that were palsied, and that were lame, were healed. And there was much joy in that city. But there was a certain man, Simon by name, who beforetime in the city used sorcery, and amazed the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is that power of God which is called Great. And they gave heed to him, because that of long time he had amazed them with his sorceries. But when they believed Philip preaching good tidings concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. And Simon also himself believed: and being baptized, he continued with Philip; and beholding signs and great miracles wrought, he was amazed.

8:36-38

And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

9:10-12

Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and the Lord said unto him in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go to the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one named Saul, a man of Tarsus: for behold, he prayeth; and he hath seen a man named Ananias coming in, and laying his hands on him, that he might receive his sight.
Let's take them one at a time. The first one when Peter said in Acts 2 was when they baptized in the name of the Lord. Not water.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
Let's take them one at a time. The first one when Peter said in Acts 2 was when they baptized in the name of the Lord. Not water.
Wrong, all 3000 were baptized in water and every commentary you read in the last 500 years or more will tell you that. So your insistence that it is not water just makes you belligerent and your argument has failed before it has gotten started. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 was not the baptism mentioned of the 3000. Now it is assumed that they did also receive that experience but the reference to their baptism is water.
 
L

lenna

Guest
Jesus was baptized before Pentecost had fully come. In Acts chapter 2 is when the New Testament had started.
you are a pompous ridiculous person who does not illustrate any accurate biblical knowledge

I don't know why people keep responding to you. It is plain we are to be water baptized

you continue to say no? that is heresy as baptism is a command, not salvation, but should follow salvation

the blood of Christ cleanses from sin, but the act of obedience illustrates acknowledging Christ and His sacrifice

it appears you refuse it and are teaching or trying to teach others to follow suit. You are someone Jesus warned about, a false teacher
 
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of course not!

well except for these:

After Philip the evangelist had taught a eunuch from Ethiopia, the Bible says, “So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away .Acts 8:38,39

And many of the Corinthians, hearing believed and were baptized” (Acts 18:8). On the day that the Lord’s church began, thousands were baptized after they heard the apostle Peter’s sermon. How does the Bible describe those who were immersed that day? They were “those who gladly received his word . . .” (Acts 2:41). Water baptism is not for infants or small toddlers, nor is it for people who refuse to believe. It is only for those who have the capacity to hear the gospel (Acts 2:37), understand it (Acts 2:36), and then sincerely receive its message (Acts 2:41).

From the Book of Acts we further learn that water baptism is for people that have repented. The apostle Peter instructed lost people, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ . . .” (Acts 2:38). They were not told simply to be baptized, but to repent and be baptized. Water baptism is not what some might call “just a ceremony.” No, being baptized is a decision for those who are prepared to turn from all their sins and commit themselves to serving Jesus faithfully, leaving the old man behind and walking in newness of life (Romans 6:3-6).

Fourth, in the Book of Acts we see that water baptism is a command. In the first recorded case of non-Jews being converted, the Bible says that the Lord’s messenger “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (Acts 10:48). Like we already noted, Peter commanded people to repent and be baptized in Jesus’ name (Acts 2:38). Likewise, Saul of Tarsus was commanded to be immersed (Acts 22:16). There is no denying this truth: water baptism is a command of God. And what is it that God wants us to do with His commands? That is correct – obey them!

The Book of Acts also shows us the purpose of water baptism. “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). According to this verse, what was the purpose of baptism? Baptism was “for the remission of sins.” Before the baptism of Saul/Paul of Tarsus, he was told, “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). What was the purpose of Saul’s baptism? The Bible’s answer is that it was to wash away his sins. No, it wasn’t the water that saved him – only the blood of Jesus can cleanse a person’s sins. But, through His blood, Jesus saves only those that obey Him (Hebrews 5:9), and it is clear that submission to Him involves being baptized and doing so for the right purpose.

Finally, the Book of Acts also shows us that water baptism is not something to be delayed once a person has made the decision to follow Jesus. The examples of baptism in the Book of Acts make it clear that when lost people heard the gospel, believed it, and were ready to become children of God, they did not put off being baptized. Why would they?! On the Day of Pentecost, people were baptized the same day (Acts 2:41). That eunuch from Africa obeyed the gospel before he made it home, and he did so without waiting on any others to join him in baptism (Acts 8:35-39). A jailer and his family were even baptized well after midnight (Acts 16:30-34). Having their sins washed away was more important to them than going home to sleep or have something to eat! article here

disclaimer: I don't know this church but the above is taken from scripture and that is what interested me
Philip had a guy ask him if he could get wet. Philip who was not an Apostle or writer of the New Testament said yes. There is no other record. All the rest of your verses they baptized in the name of the Lord. And not water.
 
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Let's take them one at a time. The first one when Peter said in Acts 2 was when they baptized in the name of the Lord. Not water.
Hmmm how did they know they were Baptized?
 
L

lenna

Guest
I reported him today.
that may be what it will take to have him stop creating these false threads

I mean, no use to be offended. If I am not mistaken, heresy is actually against the TOS and should be reported
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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The word baptism was used before the holy spirit came on the scene there is more than pone baptism but that doesn't mean one is disregarded either
The word "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH - an immersion. Basically it is an immersion into another substance, for the purpose of being saturated by it, such as water in this instance.The new covenant also presents the immersion of a believer "in the Spirit of God" and also "with Fire". Matthew 3:11

THE ORDINANCE OF BAPTISM
Baptism, as it has been known in the gospel age, is not a new ordinance. In the text of Hebrews 6: 1-2, it is "baptisms" - plural, as there is more than one type of baptism in scripture. These are -- 1. The baptism of creation to life - Genesis 1 & 7; 2 Peter 3: 6-7 2. The baptism of Moses from Egypt - Exodus 14:19-31; 1 Corinthians 10: 1-4 3. The baptism of Ritual Cleansing - Leviticus 8: 5-9; Numbers 8: 6-7; 19:13, 20 4. The baptism of John unto repentance - Matthew 3: 1-6 5. The baptism of Y'shua into His Body - Romans 6:3-5 6. The baptism in the Spirit of God for ministry - Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16 7. The baptism of fire for purification - Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16; 1 Peter 4:12-16

In the beginning, the creation in its disordered state was immersed in water and it was through the operation of the Spirit brooding upon the waters that He brought forth order out of chaos, and created new life. Genesis 1:1-10

The ordinance of immersion originated at creation in the birthing of the earth out of its submerged state under the water. When Yahweh gathered the waters together into seas, He caused the earth to be resurrected out of its watery grave which in effect, was the 'womb' from which it came forth. The word used for 'gathered waters' in verse 10 is "mikveh". The mikveh waters were actually the womb of creation from which He brought forth new life out of its former state of 'death'.

Water is always used as a cleansing, purifying agent in His purposes to initiate a change from one state of existence to another. It was the element of water that was used in conjunction with the Spirit's power upon the waters, initiated by the Word of God that effected the purposes of Father God. This is the prototype of all other forms of baptism or ritual immersions.

The creation was again cleansed and purified by water with the flood of Noah's day. Peter calls this a baptism of the earth. There are two elements used by Yahweh for cleansing - water and fire. The earth was cleansed by water the first time, during the flood. The second time it will be cleansed by fire (immersed in fire), as it is written in 2 Peter 3:6-7 and Matthew 3:12.

The whole nation of Israel was baptised "into Moses" when they went through the Red Sea, which separated them and cleansed them from the influence of Egypt, which represented the world and its lifestyle, before being taken to the promised land. The waters of the Red Sea allowed them to pass from one state of existence to another, from the status of bondage and slavery to that of freedom with the status of sonship; to become a nation with a unique calling and destiny. Exodus Chs. 12-14; 19:10
 
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you are a pompous ridiculous person who does not illustrate any accurate biblical knowledge

I don't know why people keep responding to you. It is plain we are to be water baptized

you continue to say no? that is heresy as baptism is a command, not salvation, but should follow salvation

the blood of Christ cleanses from sin, but the act of obedience illustrates acknowledging Christ and His sacrifice

it appears you refuse it and are teaching or trying to teach others to follow suit. You are someone Jesus warned about, a false teacher
You can disagree with me all day long but water baptism is not in the New Testament. We are baptized in Christ or in the name of the Lord. Water was for a time before the Lord had sent his holy spirit which happen in Acts chapter 2.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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I don't know why people keep responding to you.
I don't bother to respond to Peter, since he is beyond hope. And I believe no one else should. Doubling down on error is a very serious matter, and the Bible says "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" (Titus 3:10)
 
S

Scribe

Guest
Philip had a guy ask him if he could get wet. Philip who was not an Apostle or writer of the New Testament said yes. There is no other record. All the rest of your verses they baptized in the name of the Lord. And not water.
Well that is just about the stupidest commentary on that passage ever written, so you are still striking out. Peter must have explained the need and command to baptize and how that was his mission in accordance with Matt 28:19 as an EVANGELIST which is the title given to him by scripture which is one of the 5 fold ministries that make up the AUTHORITY ministries of the FIRST order in the church and so the Eunuch was obeying the mandate to be repent and be baptized. STRIKE TWO
 
L

lenna

Guest
I don't bother to respond to Peter, since he is beyond hope. And I believe no one else should. Doubling down on error is a very serious matter, and the Bible says "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" (Titus 3:10)

he appears to be one of those individuals that believes they have a 'special' dispensation and that everyone else is wrong

the only way to deal with this sort of thing is to reject it and admonish repentance or send it on its way. but this is not a church so it is up to the mods (as you know)

but that scripture from Titus is exactly what is going on here, even though this is a forum, as Christians we should act on that and just quit giving a platform to this type of thing by not responding. It is not as if he has not been given truth multiple of multiple times since he has been here. We all want to correct someone who comes on board with such error, but it reaches a point where it is harmful to the community IMO
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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Well that is just about the stupidest commentary on that passage ever written, so you are still striking out. Peter must have explained the need and command to baptize and how that was his mission in accordance with Matt 28:19 as an EVANGELIST which is the title given to him by scripture which is one of the 5 fold ministries that make up the AUTHORITY ministries of the FIRST order in the church and so the Eunuch was obeying the mandate to be repent and be baptized. STRIKE TWO
Well we were awrned this would happen
2 Timothy 3 1-5
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.


2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,


3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,


4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;


5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
 
L

lenna

Guest
The word baptism was used before the holy spirit came on the scene there is more than pone baptism but that doesn't mean one is disregarded either
The word "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH - an immersion. Basically it is an immersion into another substance, for the purpose of being saturated by it, such as water in this instance.The new covenant also presents the immersion of a believer "in the Spirit of God" and also "with Fire". Matthew 3:11

THE ORDINANCE OF BAPTISM
Baptism, as it has been known in the gospel age, is not a new ordinance. In the text of Hebrews 6: 1-2, it is "baptisms" - plural, as there is more than one type of baptism in scripture. These are -- 1. The baptism of creation to life - Genesis 1 & 7; 2 Peter 3: 6-7 2. The baptism of Moses from Egypt - Exodus 14:19-31; 1 Corinthians 10: 1-4 3. The baptism of Ritual Cleansing - Leviticus 8: 5-9; Numbers 8: 6-7; 19:13, 20 4. The baptism of John unto repentance - Matthew 3: 1-6 5. The baptism of Y'shua into His Body - Romans 6:3-5 6. The baptism in the Spirit of God for ministry - Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16 7. The baptism of fire for purification - Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16; 1 Peter 4:12-16

In the beginning, the creation in its disordered state was immersed in water and it was through the operation of the Spirit brooding upon the waters that He brought forth order out of chaos, and created new life. Genesis 1:1-10

The ordinance of immersion originated at creation in the birthing of the earth out of its submerged state under the water. When Yahweh gathered the waters together into seas, He caused the earth to be resurrected out of its watery grave which in effect, was the 'womb' from which it came forth. The word used for 'gathered waters' in verse 10 is "mikveh". The mikveh waters were actually the womb of creation from which He brought forth new life out of its former state of 'death'.

Water is always used as a cleansing, purifying agent in His purposes to initiate a change from one state of existence to another. It was the element of water that was used in conjunction with the Spirit's power upon the waters, initiated by the Word of God that effected the purposes of Father God. This is the prototype of all other forms of baptism or ritual immersions.

The creation was again cleansed and purified by water with the flood of Noah's day. Peter calls this a baptism of the earth. There are two elements used by Yahweh for cleansing - water and fire. The earth was cleansed by water the first time, during the flood. The second time it will be cleansed by fire (immersed in fire), as it is written in 2 Peter 3:6-7 and Matthew 3:12.

The whole nation of Israel was baptised "into Moses" when they went through the Red Sea, which separated them and cleansed them from the influence of Egypt, which represented the world and its lifestyle, before being taken to the promised land. The waters of the Red Sea allowed them to pass from one state of existence to another, from the status of bondage and slavery to that of freedom with the status of sonship; to become a nation with a unique calling and destiny. Exodus Chs. 12-14; 19:10

is there a source for all of that Blain? always give the source :giggle:

sounds like Jewish teaching with a bit of a mystical bend
 
S

Scribe

Guest
You can disagree with me all day long but water baptism is not in the New Testament. We are baptized in Christ or in the name of the Lord. Water was for a time before the Lord had sent his holy spirit which happen in Acts chapter 2.
You can't get baptized in the Name of Christ without water baptism. Do you think there is a cosmic set of letters J - E - S - U - S that falls down from the sky and immerses you? In the Name of means BY THE AUTHORITY of. You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding of what In the Name of Means. We baptize in the Authority and By the Authority of Jesus who sent us to Baptize in water. The command was to go into all the world and baptize in the Name of Jesus, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is not the words we say so much as the authority of the one who sent us. We say the words but it is just the same if we say by the authority of Jesus I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, both work, you are doing in by the authority of God and with his command that you do so. (Phillip for example, or any minister fulfilling the great commission is sent by the Authority of Jesus Himself)