Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[eternally-gratefull]

Coughs !!

Calling you out and exposing what you are doing is not a belittling attack

learn the difference

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know if you mis-typed it on purpose or if you just aren't following.

If Jesus paid for the sin debt of the whole world then no one is under death or condemnation of the Law.

If Jesus only paid for the sin debt of believers then it is only those who come to Christ who are no longer under death and condemnation of the law.


This is pretty easy to show with scripture.

Not really, it leaves out all who lived before the law was given

the law was not given to condemn, it was given to expose our sin, so we may be led to Christ,

 

[Grandpa]

That’s not what Jesus said

he did not say whoever Stops sin is not condemned, and whoever sins is condemned already

salvation is always based on faith

condemnation is based on unbelief,

the unpardonable sin is to reject the gospel.

also If sin can condemn us we are still under law not grace, no one has been under law since Jesus took away the law. and no one was saved by the law because the law was fiven to lead us to christ

Jesus didn't take away the Law.

He gave BELIEVERS Rest from their work at the Law when they come to Him.

Otherwise, the Law is very much in effect.

 

[throughfaith]

I don't know if you mis-typed it on purpose or if you just aren't following.

If Jesus paid for the sin debt of the whole world then no one is under death or condemnation of the Law.

If Jesus only paid for the sin debt of believers then it is only those who come to Christ who are no longer under death and condemnation of the law.


This is pretty easy to show with scripture.

Could you then show that with scriptures please ?

 

[Grandpa]

Not really, it leaves out all who lived before the law was given

the law was not given to condemn, it was given to expose our sin, so we may be led to Christ,

Exposing our sin is condemnation.

If some people are not led to Christ then they are still under the condemnation of the Law.

The Law obviously doesn't lead EVERYONE to Christ. Otherwise, there would be no Jews.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes. Believers are in the world. From the past, present and future.

God testifies of His Existence by creation.


Jesus paid the sin debt of believers only. If He paid the sin debt of the WHOLE WORLD then preaching is not necessary. Scripture is not necessary. There is nothing to convict anyone of. It has all been atoned for.


Can't reason with someone who needs to be saved before they can understand. You can only reason with someone who is already saved and understands.

Whosoever means everyone the Father draws to Christ, past, present and future.

You can forget trying to peddle your Calvinite view of John 3:16 and the twist you are putting on it to justify your false dogma pal!

God loved the whole order of things (KOSMOS), it is not just speaking of MAN IN GENERAL...but all of creation being redeemed from the hand of the devil and that is why GOD inspired the use of the word Kosmos.

For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

For by Him ALL THINGS were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and FOR HIM.

 

[dcontroversal]

lol good point. I have a question though . I caught you saying that if Jesus payed for the sins of the world then .Jesus paid the sin debt of believers only. If He paid the sin debt of the WHOLE WORLD then preaching is not necessary. Scripture is not necessary. There is nothing to convict anyone of. It has all been atoned for. I'm curious why you believe that? or rather why you framed it like that?

Because he is a Calvinist and that is a go to phrase to try and discredit the truth in order to peddle Calvinistic dogma....

 

[Grandpa]

Could you then show that with scriptures please ?

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.



The ministration of death and condemnation is the Law.

The ministration of the spirit and righteousness is what Christ gives BELIEVERS when they come to Him.


Galatians 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Galatians 3:24-26
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

I don't know if you mis-typed it on purpose or if you just aren't following.

If Jesus paid for the sin debt of the whole world then no one is under death or condemnation of the Law.

If Jesus only paid for the sin debt of believers then it is only those who come to Christ who are no longer under death and condemnation of the law.


This is pretty easy to show with scripture.

The way I see it is there are two problems ..Everyone sinned and falls short of the Glory of God ( rom 3.23 ) . The first part Jesus has dealt with . Sin is no longer the issue . That was nailed to the cross ( col 2.14 ) . The Glory problem is only resolved by ' receiving the atonement. Rom 5.11 This is after we believe . John 2.12 .

 

[dcontroversal]

Sin does condemn people.

See 2 Corinthians 3

It is only by coming to Christ that this condemnation is lifted.

Sin condemns no one...it is the LAW that condemns because of sin....See Romans 3....BY THE LAW is the knowledge of sin, all the world becomes guilty and every mouth stopped.

Sin is not the issue...FAITH is the issue

 

[throughfaith]

The way I see it is there are two problems ..Everyone sinned and falls short of the Glory of God ( rom 3.23 ) . The first part Jesus has dealt with . Sin is no longer the issue . That was nailed to the cross ( col 2.14 ) . The Glory problem is only resolved by ' receiving the atonement. Rom 5.11 This is after we believe . John 2.12 .

No where in the bible does it say that unbelievers will be paying for their own sins in hell . Their sins are payed for . They never recieved the Atonement and thus never were Glorified.

 

[Grandpa]

Sin condemns no one...it is the LAW that condemns because of sin....See Romans 3....BY THE LAW is the knowledge of sin, all the world becomes guilty and every mouth stopped.

Sin is not the issue...FAITH is the issue

Sin absolutely is the issue. The only way to deal with it is by coming to Christ.

 

[throughfaith]

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.



The ministration of death and condemnation is the Law.

The ministration of the spirit and righteousness is what Christ gives BELIEVERS when they come to Him.


Galatians 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Galatians 3:24-26
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Yes Faith is the access to the Grace . Rom 5.12 .By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus didn't take away the Law.

He gave BELIEVERS Rest from their work at the Law when they come to Him.

Otherwise, the Law is very much in effect.

My bible tells me Jesus took the law, nailed it to his cross, and satisfied the requirements of the law....and now BY FAITH we are JUSTIFIED APART FROM THE LAW and without the deeds/works of the law.

 

[Grandpa]

No where in the bible does it say that unbelievers will be paying for their own sins in hell . Their sins are payed for . They never recieved the Atonement and thus never were Glorified.

If they didn't receive the Atonement then their sins ARE NOT paid for.

That's what the Atonement is. Payment for sins.

 

[throughfaith]

Sin absolutely is the issue. The only way to deal with it is by coming to Christ.

Nonsense . All sins are paid for . Jesus died and paid for the entire cosmos . You were not saved when Jesus said " it is finished "

 

[dcontroversal]

Sin absolutely is the issue. The only way to deal with it is by coming to Christ.

wrong....sin is not the issue....it has been dealt with at the cross....another fallacy of Calvinism.....the sins of the whole world pal....get that through your head!

 

[Grandpa]

My bible tells me Jesus took the law, nailed it to his cross, and satisfied the requirements of the law....and now BY FAITH we are JUSTIFIED APART FROM THE LAW and without the deeds/works of the law.

Yes. By faith. That means BELIEVERS.

That's what I've been stating all along.

The Lord did not come to destroy the Law. It is held perfectly in place in order to lead His People to Him.

Once a person has come to Christ, IE Becomes a Believer, they are no longer under the Law.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nonsense . All sins are paid for . Jesus died and paid for the entire cosmos . You were not saved when Jesus said " it is finished "

it is finished is an excellent accounting phrase.....= PAID IN FULL!

 

[Grandpa]

wrong....sin is not the issue....it has been dealt with at the cross....another fallacy of Calvinism.....the sins of the whole world pal....get that through your head!

It has been dealt with at the cross ONLY FOR BELIEVERS.

Non believers still retain their own sin.