By Works

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Guojing

Banned
#961
Jan 12, 2019
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#961
Chester said:
The text says he is saved. That is Peter's words and not mine.
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Is saved is in past tense

Scarcely be saved is not past tense, but future. Those were Peter words.

I don’t get it though, you already stated to me you believe in James 2, that faith without works is dead. Isn’t peter implying the same thing there?
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#962
May 23, 2016
4,314
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#962
throughfaith said:
Eph 4.30/ Eph 1.13
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Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 give beautiful truths about the sealing of the Holy Spirit, but they do not state that once a person is saved in the church age that they will always be saved.

But this thread is not to debate OSAS, so I am not going to go further with this. There are plenty of other threads that address the subject directly. Of course I realize that in a discussion of faith and works the subject of OSAS will come up, and that is OK. But I don't want to get too far off the track of this thread . . .

My purpose for this thread is (from an earlier post):

The issue is that a faith without any works is a dead faith. Works are a blessing and a privilege, and not a burden or a requirement. They are not a separate package from faith and salvation, but are a key part of the whole process of being made free from a miserable life controlled by sin and the devil.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#963
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#963
Chester said:
Huh, ???!!!!! What I do know is that David cried out to God and said "take not thy Holy Spirit from me"
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You believe we Christians living in this age still need to cry that out to God when we sin?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#964
#964
Guojing said:
In that case, you also don't believe that faith, apart from works, can save you right?
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There is no such thing

why is it so hard for people to comprehend

you focus to more on works and not enough on faith
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#965
#965
throughfaith said:
No one in the OT was born again or sealed by the Holy Spirit. Nor will a person during the Tribulation. They will not be saved if they take the Mark of the beast . That's clear.
No one loses salvation in the church age till the rapture .
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No one loses Salvation period. If so, it is a works based gospel
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#966
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#966
Chester said:
Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 give beautiful truths about the sealing of the Holy Spirit, but they do not state that once a person is saved in the church age that they will always be saved.

But this thread is not to debate OSAS, so I am not going to go further with this. There are plenty of other threads that address the subject directly. Of course I realize that in a discussion of faith and works the subject of OSAS will come up, and that is OK. But I don't want to get too far off the track of this thread . . .

My purpose for this thread is (from an earlier post):

The issue is that a faith without any works is a dead faith. Works are a blessing and a privilege, and not a burden or a requirement. They are not a separate package from faith and salvation, but are a key part of the whole process of being made free from a miserable life controlled by sin and the devil.
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Ephesians 4.30 and 1.13 absolutely are Once saved , stay saved .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#967
#967
throughfaith said:
Yes and we know he will be Heaven , that's clear. Are you saying no one in the OT Fell away ?
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Did David?

did god mess up when he called David a man after his heart, could David have possibly proved God a liar?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#968
#968
throughfaith said:
Are you saying that a believer who takes the Mark of the beast during the Tribulation can be saved ?
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No believer WOULD

its sad you do NT think the HS can empower people
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#969
#969
Chester said:
Do you have a verse that says that people in church age are "once saved always saved"?
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Eternal life?

never die, never hunger or thirst, live forever, assured they will raise on the last day?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#971
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#971
eternally-gratefull said:
There is no such thing

why is it so hard for people to comprehend

you focus to more on works and not enough on faith
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In the first place, I was trying to clarify his doctrine with that question

I believe we are saved by faith alone without works in this grace dispensation (romans 4:5)
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#973
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
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#973
Guojing said:
Is saved is in past tense

Scarcely be saved is not past tense, but future. Those were Peter words.

I don’t get it though, you already stated to me you believe in James 2, that faith without works is dead. Isn’t peter implying the same thing there?
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Huh? Here is I Peter 4:18:

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? KJV

The Greek verb for "be saved" is "sozetai" which is a present passive indicative verb: not even close to the same as "future".
Even the KJV translation here is present tense "be saved". Future tense here would be "will be saved".

So you have me completely baffled when you say Peter's words for "be saved" were future tense!????
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#975
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#975
eternally-gratefull said:
No believer WOULD

its sad you do NT think the HS can empower people
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Some of us believe the HS allow all of us free choice to take or reject the mark.

I thought in that Calvinist thread, you were saying that too, that you are against their doctrine of irresistible grace?
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#976
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
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#976
eternally-gratefull said:
Eternal life?

never die, never hunger or thirst, live forever, assured they will raise on the last day?
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That is always forever true for the believers in Christ Jesus. They have eternal life.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#977
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#977
Chester said:
Huh? Here is I Peter 4:18:

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? KJV

The Greek verb for "be saved" is "sozetai" which is a present passive indicative verb: not even close to the same as "future".
Even the KJV translation here is present tense "be saved". Future tense here would be "will be saved".

So you have me completely baffled when you say Peter's words were for saved were future tense!????
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If you begin from 1 peter 1, you will see that, to peter, salvation is always given at the end when Jesus return for Israel

You can also begin from acts 3:19-21 to get that same doctrine from him. Israel sins will only be blotted out during that time of refreshing
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#979
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#979
eternally-gratefull said:
No one loses Salvation period. If so, it is a works based gospel
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Next time your in a discussion with someone who believes in Loss of / conditional salvation take note of how many OT passages they quote at you . Especially Ezekiel.
 
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