Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.
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Wouldn't it be hard to explain to God when we meet how though we accepted Christ as our savior we lived and believed as ones still sinners who were weak to and obedient to the leading of sin? And professing we are as the redeemed in Christ, a new creation, we breathe as hypocrites to our own faith ideal when we think we are the same as that old creation that was dead in their sin, as a living sinner? What new creation are we then if we think and argue we, the saved in Christ, are what we once were when we say now, I am a sinner who sins.
The former has passed away, behold the new has come. Why then invoke the behaviors and faults and weaknesses of the former if we're living and breathing as the new creature in God's grace?
Are we not saved from our sins? Rather than in our sins?
Romans 6:
16 Do you not know that to whomever you give yourselves as servants, to obey, you are his servants whom you obey; whether it be of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 Thanks be to God that, although you had been the servants of sin, you have obeyed (from the heart) the type of doctrine by which you were delivered.
18 Being then made free from sin, you are made the servants of righteousness.
The former has passed away, behold the new has come. Why then invoke the behaviors and faults and weaknesses of the former if we're living and breathing as the new creature in God's grace?
Are we not saved from our sins? Rather than in our sins?
Romans 6:
16 Do you not know that to whomever you give yourselves as servants, to obey, you are his servants whom you obey; whether it be of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 Thanks be to God that, although you had been the servants of sin, you have obeyed (from the heart) the type of doctrine by which you were delivered.
18 Being then made free from sin, you are made the servants of righteousness.
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Amen! In Philippians 2:12, notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not work "for" your salvation. Big difference! When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not in order to get a body. Farmers "work out" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. This pertains to ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of growth towards maturity in regards to practical holiness and Christ-likeness for those who have already been justified by faith. Believers are active and not passive in this process. However, though we are active, we are not alone in this process. Verse 13 goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
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Yes, that is from the Amplified Bible, Classic Edition.
The Amplified Bible reads (1 John 3:9) - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.
The NASB reads (1 John 3:9) - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. The idea of practice pertains to one's lifestyle or bent of life. To have weak moments and stumble and sin intermittently is different than making these behaviors a willful, habitual lifestyle.
In regards to 1 John 3:9, Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - Doeth no sin (amartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in verse John 4 like amartanei in verse John 8 . The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed (sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1 . And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartaneiin verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6 . For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1 . A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartanein here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/1-john/1-john-3-9.html
The Amplified Bible reads (1 John 3:9) - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.
The NASB reads (1 John 3:9) - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. The idea of practice pertains to one's lifestyle or bent of life. To have weak moments and stumble and sin intermittently is different than making these behaviors a willful, habitual lifestyle.
In regards to 1 John 3:9, Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - Doeth no sin (amartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in verse John 4 like amartanei in verse John 8 . The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed (sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1 . And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartaneiin verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6 . For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1 . A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartanein here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/1-john/1-john-3-9.html
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Nicely put.
13 For it is [not your strength, but it is] [c]God who is effectively at work in you, both to will and to work [that is, strengthening, energizing, and creating in you the longing and the ability to fulfill your purpose] for His good pleasure.
Our purpose for his good pleasure is to serve his will. Or, our deeds and works in service to his good pleasure is our purpose under God.
13 For it is [not your strength, but it is] [c]God who is effectively at work in you, both to will and to work [that is, strengthening, energizing, and creating in you the longing and the ability to fulfill your purpose] for His good pleasure.
Our purpose for his good pleasure is to serve his will. Or, our deeds and works in service to his good pleasure is our purpose under God.
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Philippians 2:12 should be understood in its context... read just a few verses back (1:14):
"And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear."
Paul is exhorting these believers, that even if they themselves are not [yet, anyway] "waxing confident BY MY BONDS," they can at least "do it afraid!" [not "in fear" of losing salvation, mind you... this is speaking of "fear" in the face of "fearful circumstances" (i.e. Paul's imprisonment)]
...similar to:
2Cor7:15 - "And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him."
1Cor2:3 - "I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling."
Eph6:5 - "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ"
This [type of contexts] speaks of, "before other people"
"And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear."
Paul is exhorting these believers, that even if they themselves are not [yet, anyway] "waxing confident BY MY BONDS," they can at least "do it afraid!" [not "in fear" of losing salvation, mind you... this is speaking of "fear" in the face of "fearful circumstances" (i.e. Paul's imprisonment)]
...similar to:
2Cor7:15 - "And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him."
1Cor2:3 - "I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling."
Eph6:5 - "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ"
This [type of contexts] speaks of, "before other people"
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For the believer it pertains to a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up and throw me into hell for not being "good enough." That is an unhealthy fear! In regards to Luke 12, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more, but instead, fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. We should fear God over man is the point here and not that God is going to cast His saints into hell. They are not forsaken and are preserved forever. (Psalm 37:28) So Philippians 2:12 is not about works salvation or fear and bondage to IN-security.
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Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).
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I'm just throwing this out there to see if it sticks. If it does, praise God, if not, praise God. Always in all ways, praise God.
What if instead of accusing one another of being liars, we instead consider what each one is doing here is defending their understanding of scripture which coincides with their unique belief in relationship to God. Rather than calling that one a liar who lies, which would I think impart a willful act on their part to deceive, gently arrive at the peace filled realization they are living in the faithful understanding of God's message to them as they understand it.
Doesn't it seem a bit contrary to throw away a part of the Bible that tells us to speak the truth in love to one another, Ephesians 4:11-16, and express just the opposite in order to defend our personal belief of what we understand of the Bible? And maybe see that in doing that switch in order to defend our pride of what we perceive as personal understanding, we're demonstrating how little we do to live what we're taught by the Bible.
For this reason we thank God continuously; because when when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you did not receive it as the word of man, but as it is in truth, the Word of God. 1 Thessalonians 2:13
The word of God isn't a Bible. It is God. His word is planted in our hearts like a seed. What example are we setting before God if that seed within our hearts sprouts from out of our mouths thorns rather than love?
We are the example of the truth of God in Christ. Before any Bible came to exist and before our Father who watches us write our own testimony in his name.
And quite frankly, I've noticed a lovely discussion can become very disruptive to the emotions when I, and perhaps others here know what I'm speaking of and to, have to scroll past and ignore what I first see appear as unloving demeanor and graceless words of attack. But I do, and ever shall. Because God is love.
OK, that's it. Longer sticky than I planned but there it is.
Peace.
What if instead of accusing one another of being liars, we instead consider what each one is doing here is defending their understanding of scripture which coincides with their unique belief in relationship to God. Rather than calling that one a liar who lies, which would I think impart a willful act on their part to deceive, gently arrive at the peace filled realization they are living in the faithful understanding of God's message to them as they understand it.
Doesn't it seem a bit contrary to throw away a part of the Bible that tells us to speak the truth in love to one another, Ephesians 4:11-16, and express just the opposite in order to defend our personal belief of what we understand of the Bible? And maybe see that in doing that switch in order to defend our pride of what we perceive as personal understanding, we're demonstrating how little we do to live what we're taught by the Bible.
For this reason we thank God continuously; because when when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you did not receive it as the word of man, but as it is in truth, the Word of God. 1 Thessalonians 2:13
The word of God isn't a Bible. It is God. His word is planted in our hearts like a seed. What example are we setting before God if that seed within our hearts sprouts from out of our mouths thorns rather than love?
We are the example of the truth of God in Christ. Before any Bible came to exist and before our Father who watches us write our own testimony in his name.
And quite frankly, I've noticed a lovely discussion can become very disruptive to the emotions when I, and perhaps others here know what I'm speaking of and to, have to scroll past and ignore what I first see appear as unloving demeanor and graceless words of attack. But I do, and ever shall. Because God is love.
OK, that's it. Longer sticky than I planned but there it is.
Peace.
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Verse 18 - https://biblehub.com/text/romans/6-18.htm
Consider the distinction, here:
--Romans 1 thru 5:11 = "sinS" (sins we commit... etc)
--Romans 5:12 thru chpt 8 end = "Sin"
... so in 6:18 it says, "having been set free from THE SIN..."
Consider the distinction, here:
--Romans 1 thru 5:11 = "sinS" (sins we commit... etc)
--Romans 5:12 thru chpt 8 end = "Sin"
... so in 6:18 it says, "having been set free from THE SIN..."
The Biblehub link does not take me to a page that says what you propose it does in your remarks.
Excised from that page is the textual part itself since we know it is Romans 6:18
The , in the grammatical outline of that text, is the definite article, meaning the topic under discussion is already present. In this case, sin. Whereas hamartias, is speaking as a feminine noun singular, a sin. It all pertains to the same identity; sin. It cannot and does not state we are all slaves to a sin, or the sin, in the common English vernacular. Rather it is speaking to and of, sin as a whole.
Jesus died to take away the sins of the world. Not a sin, nor the sin.
That is how I see it. Though I have been known to go cross eyed a time or two, so no tellin.
Excised from that page is the textual part itself since we know it is Romans 6:18
The , in the grammatical outline of that text, is the definite article, meaning the topic under discussion is already present. In this case, sin. Whereas hamartias, is speaking as a feminine noun singular, a sin. It all pertains to the same identity; sin. It cannot and does not state we are all slaves to a sin, or the sin, in the common English vernacular. Rather it is speaking to and of, sin as a whole.
Jesus died to take away the sins of the world. Not a sin, nor the sin.
That is how I see it. Though I have been known to go cross eyed a time or two, so no tellin.
Again thats what would be the case if Jesus had set up His kingdom at that time . There will be perfect Justice and no need to respond that way . As they rejected their messiah , the kingdom is now future . That is not about a pattern to follow for new testament, church age followers. Have you sold everything you own?